David Rubenstein 2024

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I agree in that I would be over the moon to extend Gunnar and hope that they do everything that they can. But based on past history Boras usually does not play ball. 

That's why I wanted to lock him up before he moved to Boras. 

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's why I wanted to lock him up before he moved to Boras. 

I'm not sure that extension were a possibility under John Angelos. I don't think that he believed in them or wanted to commit to that kind of longer term spending.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

I'm not sure that extension were a possibility under John Angelos. I don't think that he believed in them or wanted to commit to that kind of longer term spending.

It was a callback to me wanting to give Gunnar a 10 year deal and promote him to the majors back in 2021.

He switched to Boras in Jan 2022.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It was a callback to me wanting to give Gunnar a 10 year deal and promote him to the majors back in 2021.

He switched to Boras in Jan 2022.

You were definitely right on that and maybe Elias agreed with you. But I don't think that there was any convincing John Angelos of that.

[deward]

7 hours ago, emmett16 said:

Rays have not won much. They havnt been dominant.  They’ve been a solid team with a crap stadium that’s very far away from their fan base.  Located somewhere else, they’d have solid attendance.  
 

The A’s on the other hand are a bad example for your argument.  After a dominant 70s (with titles) from 1981-1993 they were one of the most popular teams in the country and never averaged less than 11th in the league in attendance (finishing 2nd twice, 3rd twice, and 4th twice) while making it to 3 WS & winning 2.  

I'm looking at the Rays record over the past decade and I'm a bit confused over your definition of "have not won much". However, my argument is simple - teams that don't invest in payroll don't win championships in baseball. Over the past 21 years (I was going to do 20, but added the extra to include Florida's win in 2003), the average payroll position relative to the league of the eventual WS champ was 9th (see below)

Year	WS Champ	OD Payroll rank
2003	FLA	25
2004	BOS	2
2005	CWS	13
2006	STL	11
2007	BOS	2
2008	PHI	12
2009	NYY	1
2010	SF	10
2011	STL	11
2012	SF	8
2013	BOS	4
2014	SF	7
2015	KC	16
2016	CHC	14
2017	HOU	18
2018	BOS	1
2019	WAS	7
2020	LAD	2
2021	ATL	13
2022	HOU	11
2023	TEX	9

 

Only three of these teams had payrolls in the bottom half of league:

Florida in 2003 had by far the lowest payroll, at 25th. Their payroll climbed to as high as 18th over the next couple of years, but they couldn't maintain their success and haven't made the playoffs since, outside of the COVID season.

KC in 2015 had the 16th lowest payroll, barely below the median payroll for the year. They haven't been back to the playoffs since.

Houston in 2017 had the 18th lowest payroll. This was their big breakthrough year after their tanking/rebuild, and they haven't been lower than 11th since, and as high as 4th.

 

The trend is obvious. After the Marlins' miracle run in 2003, no team has won the WS with a payroll lower than 18th, and that team (Houston) is an obvious outlier as they were in the basically the same spot as the O's now (on the upswing from a full tear-down). While KC and Florida both had years where everything came together perfectly, they were unable to sustain their momentum. The O's were 23rd in payroll on Opening Day, and the current roster is good enough to win a championship, but history suggests they'll go the way of Florida and Kansas City if Rubenstein isn't willing to invest in the payroll. Consistently letting the talent drain out of your organization because you aren't willing to pay them won't lead to multiple championships and it won't keep fans engaged.

[Frobby]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

And they got a ring.

And extended Stras.

And paid Scherzer, and Zimmerman, and Corbin, and Werth.   They didn’t all work out, but nobody could say the Nats didn’t spend to put a winning team on the field during their run.  The run basically ended because Stras II and Corbin blew up in their face.   But there’s always 2019.   

[drjohnnyfever1]

I have to say it's just a thrill to see an owner so jacked to be at games and having fun with his toy.  Rubes was out after the game today throwing shirt after shirt to happy fans.  Such a nice thing to do and you could tell he was enjoying doing it.  I'm so happy that this team we have growing here is growing with this guy as the owner.  He seems very genuine in all he does.  Go Rubes!

[Moose Milligan]

Best owner in baseball?

[O's84]

Couldn't be less John Angelos if you tried.

[Can_of_corn]

50 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Best owner in baseball?

Hasn't managed to screw up yet.

[Bemorewins]

16 hours ago, deward said:

I'm looking at the Rays record over the past decade and I'm a bit confused over your definition of "have not won much". However, my argument is simple - teams that don't invest in payroll don't win championships in baseball. Over the past 21 years (I was going to do 20, but added the extra to include Florida's win in 2003), the average payroll position relative to the league of the eventual WS champ was 9th (see below)

Year	WS Champ	OD Payroll rank
2003	FLA	25
2004	BOS	2
2005	CWS	13
2006	STL	11
2007	BOS	2
2008	PHI	12
2009	NYY	1
2010	SF	10
2011	STL	11
2012	SF	8
2013	BOS	4
2014	SF	7
2015	KC	16
2016	CHC	14
2017	HOU	18
2018	BOS	1
2019	WAS	7
2020	LAD	2
2021	ATL	13
2022	HOU	11
2023	TEX	9

 

Only three of these teams had payrolls in the bottom half of league:

Florida in 2003 had by far the lowest payroll, at 25th. Their payroll climbed to as high as 18th over the next couple of years, but they couldn't maintain their success and haven't made the playoffs since, outside of the COVID season.

KC in 2015 had the 16th lowest payroll, barely below the median payroll for the year. They haven't been back to the playoffs since.

Houston in 2017 had the 18th lowest payroll. This was their big breakthrough year after their tanking/rebuild, and they haven't been lower than 11th since, and as high as 4th.

 

The trend is obvious. After the Marlins' miracle run in 2003, no team has won the WS with a payroll lower than 18th, and that team (Houston) is an obvious outlier as they were in the basically the same spot as the O's now (on the upswing from a full tear-down). While KC and Florida both had years where everything came together perfectly, they were unable to sustain their momentum. The O's were 23rd in payroll on Opening Day, and the current roster is good enough to win a championship, but history suggests they'll go the way of Florida and Kansas City if Rubenstein isn't willing to invest in the payroll. Consistently letting the talent drain out of your organization because you aren't willing to pay them won't lead to multiple championships and it won't keep fans engaged.

You could not have stated things any better than you did!

[yark14]

1 hour ago, drjohnnyfever1 said:

I have to say it's just a thrill to see an owner so jacked to be at games and having fun with his toy.  Rubes was out after the game today throwing shirt after shirt to happy fans.  Such a nice thing to do and you could tell he was enjoying doing it.  I'm so happy that this team we have growing here is growing with this guy as the owner.  He seems very genuine in all he does.  Go Rubes!

He might need to ice his arm after all the hats and shirts he threw today.

[Moose Milligan]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hasn't managed to screw up yet.

So yes. 

Can’t wait for this offseason where people are going to expect him to spend money based on nothing other than his last name isn’t Angelos. 
 

Should be interesting. 

[Big Al]

Finally have the kind of owner and front office we have waited for so long. If I’m dreaming, please don’t wake me. 

[Orioles West]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

So yes. 

Can’t wait for this offseason where people are going to expect him to spend money based on nothing other than his last name isn’t Angelos. 
 

Should be interesting. 

I think some folks here would complain about payroll stuff even if we spent like the Dodgers or Yanks.

It ain’t Hot Stove at the Hangout if people aren’t whining about grabbing various high profile FA or extending everyone.