Bowden trade proposal: Kjerstad to CLE for two bullpen pieces

[Sydnor]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I would want to get Walters back from Cle..electric relief prospect in AAA.

This is a real philosophical question….do you trade the unproven young guy for BP help or do you trade the vet proven guy for BP help?

In the offseason, I feel that’s a no brainer and you move the vet but during the season, the decision becomes much harder imo.

Walters is at AA Akron, and the Orioles did draft him, so they would probably have interest. He has been electric so far striking out more than 2 per inning. I also like Aleman quite a bit at AAA. He had a 0.00 ERA in 24 innings with Akron last year with 14.3 K/9. This year at Columbus he has a 2.07 ERA and 15.9 K/9 in 13 innings.

I like Gaddis more than most probably. He has struggled a bit lately, but they rode him really hard at the beginning of the year.

There might be something to the idea of dealing with Cleveland because Cleveland still needs serious help in the outfield. Outside of Kwan (who is out for 4 weeks), they’ve been running out the following:

Ramon Laureano: 68 wRC+ (mostly platooned)
Tyler Freeman: 90 wRC+
Will Brennan: 97 wRC+
Estevan Florial: 106 wRC+ (mostly platooned)

[casadeozo]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I would want to get Walters back from Cle..electric relief prospect in AAA.

This is a real philosophical question….do you trade the unproven young guy for BP help or do you trade the vet proven guy for BP help?

In the offseason, I feel that’s a no brainer and you move the vet but during the season, the decision becomes much harder imo.

Oh man I remember we drafted Walters in 2022 and were not able to sign him. Imagine if we had him in the organization!

[G54377]

Two good bullpen arms is not the same as a great one. We've got a handful of good relievers. We need a great one.

[oriolediehard]

2 hours ago, Fiver6565 said:

I’m not even sure how they’d fit two new relievers on the roster. Sure they can DFA Bauman but are they going to give up Kjerstad just to force their hand on that and maybe Suarez?  You’re basically giving up three players for those two relievers (which i admittedly know nothing about other than the referenced stats). 

The O's can send Baumann and Suarez with Kjerstad? 

[Too Tall]

I'm sorry, but to me, Bowden and trade proposal are incongruent terms. 

[wildcard]

Not what Elias is looking for at all IMO.   He will want  a proven, successful closer with playoff experience.    And if the Burnes trade is an indicator he will not trade the O's starting RF in 2025 to get that closer.

[Too Tall]

To elaborate. In my opinion - Cowser isn't a sure thing but he is better defensively than Kjerstad. Don't get me wrong, but Cowser has to show he can adjust as major league pitchers work on him. Stowers is a step or two below. Santander may not be here next year. Kjerstad may become the best hitter in the trio with Cowser and Stowers. Sooooooooooooo, I'm not trading Kjerstad for two middling of anything because we will probably need that lefthanded outfield depth. Just call me Elias Light! or Old or whatever. 

[Moose Milligan]

51 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Ummmmm...maybe because he is a top 100 prospect and a former #2 draft pick and the 2 guys from Clev have been middling relievers there entire careers?

 

Tell ya what.  Why don't you offer 2 of our average middle relievers to XXX team for a top 100 prospect and top 5 pick and see how far you get without being laughed out of the room.

 

Some of the takes I see from people such as yourself....wanting to trade top talent for relievers who are literally a dime a dozen...is wild to me.

We're not going to have room for all of these guys.  We're just not.  These wet dream posts of lineups 1-9 with all homegrown talent are exactly that.  

Second, you're acting like just because he's a top 100 prospect doesn't mean there's a chance that he won't make it.  I'll tip my cap to Elias and his crew, they've done a masterful job of developing talent, I can understand why people are so excited about all of our prospects but if we're going to have to trade one, I'm going to go with the one that has a lot of swing and miss in his game and isn't pegged as a great defender at either corner outfield spot.  He's also already 25 years old, barely has played at all in the majors....and some of that's not his fault, but it still is what it is.

With this franchise's ability to scout, draft and develop, I am not at all worried about trading Heston Kjerstad for bullpen help in a day and age where elite bullpens are game changers.  We're going to need a stout bullpen if/when we make it to the playoffs.  It's the one spot of this team I think that we should all be able to agree that needs an upgrade.

You're also neglecting to understand the fact that those relievers are under team control for awhile and have options which means there's more value to the Cleveland relievers that you're so quick to dismiss.  In your little scenario where you're talking about switching places and trading our middling relievers for someone like Kjerstad, you're acting like we'd be trying to trade Baumann and Suarez which is just intentionally obtuse on your part, you should be ashamed.  And with how Elias and his team have developed pitching and used analytics and pitch mixing,  I'm not too worried about the performance of either one coming back. 

If we were the 28th ranked minor league system and Kjerstad was our only guy we had to dream on, sure, I'd agree with you.  But it's not like Dylan Beavers isn't killing it in AA, he's 2 years younger and can play a corner outfield spot in Camden Yards.  

Blargh, blargh, blargh #2 overall pick blarg, blargh, blargh 

[EddeeEddee]

Not sure why Cleveland would trade anyone useful in 2024 when they could win that division. 

Pitching rich teams that need offense and are unlikely to be postseason contenders, say like Oakland or St Louis, appear to be better matchups.

[OnlyOneOriole]

51 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

We're not going to have room for all of these guys.  We're just not.  These wet dream posts of lineups 1-9 with all homegrown talent are exactly that.  

Second, you're acting like just because he's a top 100 prospect doesn't mean there's a chance that he won't make it.  I'll tip my cap to Elias and his crew, they've done a masterful job of developing talent, I can understand why people are so excited about all of our prospects but if we're going to have to trade one, I'm going to go with the one that has a lot of swing and miss in his game and isn't pegged as a great defender at either corner outfield spot.  He's also already 25 years old, barely has played at all in the majors....and some of that's not his fault, but it still is what it is.

With this franchise's ability to scout, draft and develop, I am not at all worried about trading Heston Kjerstad for bullpen help in a day and age where elite bullpens are game changers.  We're going to need a stout bullpen if/when we make it to the playoffs.  It's the one spot of this team I think that we should all be able to agree that needs an upgrade.

You're also neglecting to understand the fact that those relievers are under team control for awhile and have options which means there's more value to the Cleveland relievers that you're so quick to dismiss.  In your little scenario where you're talking about switching places and trading our middling relievers for someone like Kjerstad, you're acting like we'd be trying to trade Baumann and Suarez which is just intentionally obtuse on your part, you should be ashamed.  And with how Elias and his team have developed pitching and used analytics and pitch mixing,  I'm not too worried about the performance of either one coming back. 

If we were the 28th ranked minor league system and Kjerstad was our only guy we had to dream on, sure, I'd agree with you.  But it's not like Dylan Beavers isn't killing it in AA, he's 2 years younger and can play a corner outfield spot in Camden Yards.  

Blargh, blargh, blargh #2 overall pick blarg, blargh, blargh 

All very good points.  But you simply cannot trade him for 2 career middling relievers.  Not the second pick in the draft and someone who has performed all the way up the ranks.   I think you would be wayyyyy undervaluing Heston. 

 

If you are going to trade him?  Add him in with someone else of value and get a true stud.  Not two 'guys'.

Edited May 7 by OnlyOneOriole

[RZNJ]

47 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

We're not going to have room for all of these guys.  We're just not.  These wet dream posts of lineups 1-9 with all homegrown talent are exactly that.  

Second, you're acting like just because he's a top 100 prospect doesn't mean there's a chance that he won't make it.  I'll tip my cap to Elias and his crew, they've done a masterful job of developing talent, I can understand why people are so excited about all of our prospects but if we're going to have to trade one, I'm going to go with the one that has a lot of swing and miss in his game and isn't pegged as a great defender at either corner outfield spot.  He's also already 25 years old, barely has played at all in the majors....and some of that's not his fault, but it still is what it is.

With this franchise's ability to scout, draft and develop, I am not at all worried about trading Heston Kjerstad for bullpen help in a day and age where elite bullpens are game changers.  We're going to need a stout bullpen if/when we make it to the playoffs.  It's the one spot of this team I think that we should all be able to agree that needs an upgrade.

You're also neglecting to understand the fact that those relievers are under team control for awhile and have options which means there's more value to the Cleveland relievers that you're so quick to dismiss.  In your little scenario where you're talking about switching places and trading our middling relievers for someone like Kjerstad, you're acting like we'd be trying to trade Baumann and Suarez which is just intentionally obtuse on your part, you should be ashamed.  And with how Elias and his team have developed pitching and used analytics and pitch mixing,  I'm not too worried about the performance of either one coming back. 

If we were the 28th ranked minor league system and Kjerstad was our only guy we had to dream on, sure, I'd agree with you.  But it's not like Dylan Beavers isn't killing it in AA, he's 2 years younger and can play a corner outfield spot in Camden Yards.  

Blargh, blargh, blargh #2 overall pick blarg, blargh, blargh 

We’re not going to have room for all of those guys.  We’re just not.   Which guys and who says?  
 

When Wells and GRod comes back that likely knocks Baumann off the team and another starter to the bullpen.  Which one of these are the Cleveland guys significant upgrades over?

Cano

Webb

Suarez

Wells

Coulombe

Akin

Perez

 

[RZNJ]

@Moose Milligan  Is the laugh emoji the same as ohhhh ok?

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

We’re not going to have room for all of those guys.  We’re just not.   Which guys and who says?  
 

When Wells and GRod comes back that likely knocks Baumann off the team and another starter to the bullpen.  Which one of these are the Cleveland guys significant upgrades over?

Cano

Webb

Suarez

Wells

Coulombe

Akin

Perez

 

Kjerstad goes if I'm running the show.  I'm sure you have guys that you'd prefer to trade, but you don't see me getting all bent out of shape about it.  

I'd ride the Suarez train as long as I could but you know as well as I do that has the biggest chance of turning into a pumpkin out of all of them.  But if you think that Scrap Heap Suarez is a long term answer here, that's fine.  

I also don't think Webb is as good as he's been.

 

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

@Moose Milligan  Is the laugh emoji the same as ohhhh ok?

 

Pretty much.  Man, you're in one of your moods today.  Lighten up, Francis.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

All very good points.  But you simply cannot trade him for 2 career middling relievers.  Not the second pick in the draft and someone who has performed all the way up the ranks.   I think you would be wayyyyy undervaluing Heston. 

 

If you are going to trade him?  Add him in with someone else of value and get a true stud.  Not two 'guys'.

I’m curious about your reference to “career middling relievers.”   These are two guys who have all 6 years of service time remaining, and Smith had never pitched in the majors.   So what “career”do you mean?  Minor leagues?  I’ll grant you that neither had a great ERA there, though Smith at 14.1 K/9 (14.6 in AAA) is pretty intriguing.  I’d defer to the Orioles evaluators as to what their major league potential is.  

[RZNJ]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Kjerstad goes if I'm running the show.  I'm sure you have guys that you'd prefer to trade, but you don't see me getting all bent out of shape about it.  

I'd ride the Suarez train as long as I could but you know as well as I do that has the biggest chance of turning into a pumpkin out of all of them.  But if you think that Scrap Heap Suarez is a long term answer here, that's fine.  

I also don't think Webb is as good as he's been.

 

 

Pretty much.  Man, you're in one of your moods today.  Lighten up, Francis.

I’m fine with trading Kjerstad but not for two relievers who might not be better than we have.  Couldn’t Gaddis and Smith just as easily turn into pumpkins?  Do they have some kind of track record beyond their first 15 innings pitched this year?  Gaddis had a 4.50 ERA for the Guardians and Smith had a 4.00 ERA in AAA.  All of a sudden those guys are studs.  If we go by the first 15 innings then Suarez, Webb, Coulombe, and Akin are all studs too.  So tell me which 2-3 pitchers do you want to DFA.  Akin is the only one with options.   You want to trade Kjerstad for two relievers you’re sure are that much better than what we already have?