Jazz Chisolm Trade?

[Malike]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

I understand that anything can happen in the playoffs, but doesn’t that make it more imperative to get a bye so that we can avoid the lightning in the bottle teams, and rest while other teams bludgeon each other?

Why yes it is more imperative. Therefore we need to win the division, and that should be the goal.

Are you really saying that if we, say, clinch a playoff spot with 15 games remaining we should just all of a sudden start resting guys and start playing backups because we reached our goal?

No, I don’t think you are.

What if we're the lightning in the bottle team and get a week off? It will be okay if they win the division, it would really great if they win the World Series, despite not winning the division.

[GunnarBomb]

2 hours ago, 24fps said:

Hi GunnarBomb.  Welcome to the OH.  Ever been to Alaska?

Calgary on a regular basis.  Just as cold during the winter!

[GunnarBomb]

8 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t know about you. But I am in no one concerned about Boston, Tampa, or Toronto surpassing us this season or next season (for that matter).

I wonder how much that new poster who showed up (today or yesterday?) watches other teams? Speaking of the AL East like we are some inferior team. Speaking of guys to protect our young guys. Who “protects” Aaron Judge on the Yankees? That concept seems antiquated or is designated to an era gone by.

How about a guy named Juan Soto.   In tonight's game vs Angels he walked, then Judge promptly hit's a 600 foot HR.   Soto just came up an driller a 3 run triple off a reliever that just came in.   Have to pitch to him with Judge next.  THAT'S protection.   Oh yeah, Volpe, Stanton, Rizzo, Verdugo and Torres aren't slouches either.

 

Time to spend some of that billionaire money to keep up!

[foxfield]

Who let the trolls out? Who? Who?  Who?  Who?  Who?

[DrungoHazewood]

11 hours ago, Philip said:

I mentioned this in my previous post, but the advantages to winning the division are obvious, plus, if we win the division, the Yankees don’t, and frankly, if we don’t win the division, it probably indicates some kind of flaw in our roster that never got adequately addressed.

By your criteria, last year's Rangers, D'backs, Phillies, Marlins, Rays, Jays, and Astros all had flaws in their roster that never got adequately addressed. And yet two of those teams were in the World Series, including the eventual champs.

And what happens when the Yanks address their four lineup spots that are OPSing .591, .677, .639, and .638, and replace their 4th- and 5th-most used relievers who've given up 25 runs in 39.2 innings? They may never lose again, right? Even though they're not terribly different from the team that won 82 games last year...

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the Yanks don't end up playing .672 ball the whole year.

 

[gtman55]

I 100% want the Orioles to acquire some legit talent for the bullpen. Organizationally, we're in good shape with position players. So to answer the OP's question --- No.

[Just Regular]

I expect the Sigbots to fight hard for the division - its a larger sample size relatively more process driven.

I think series 1 we saw rotation manipulation to include Grayson, the second 100-pitch game of his career (followed by pit stop), and Heston Kjerstad chosen as a last guy on bench for one or two theoretical PA because Sigbot thinks he's better than Kyle Stowers.

For sure we pooped the bed last fall, but that won't stop appropriate double downs from occurring.

I do psychobabble think it won't be terrible if the guys can taste a little ALWC success before the reasonably likely 5-game ALDS showdown.    Yankee Stadium Game 1 could be Dean Kremer v. Gerrit Cole there though.     As a matter of academic curiosity, it'd be intriguing to discover if they'd use Bradish and Grayson both in wildcard game 2 if Burnes drops Game 1 but I'm okay if that stays in the speculative realm a bunch of AL East championship years.

[Bemorewins]

9 hours ago, GunnarBomb said:

How about a guy named Juan Soto.   In tonight's game vs Angels he walked, then Judge promptly hit's a 600 foot HR.   Soto just came up an driller a 3 run triple off a reliever that just came in.   Have to pitch to him with Judge next.  THAT'S protection.   Oh yeah, Volpe, Stanton, Rizzo, Verdugo and Torres aren't slouches either.

 

Time to spend some of that billionaire money to keep up!

It’s becoming clearer and clearer to me what you are about. I genuinely feel sorry for you. That you don’t have anything better to do than to come to a message board for Orioles fans, “pretending” to be one of us to go on about things that you really don’t know much about.

This “awesome” Yankees team that you speak of is tied with the Orioles in the loss column (in case you didn’t know or have time to look up the two teams records. The Yankees beat the Angels, big deal!!

Have you seen the OBP of those “non-slouch” players like Stanton, Rizzo, Verdugo, and Torres? Hint - no great shakes. In some cases worse than our “non-protection guys” like Westburg, O’Hearn, Mountcastle, Cowser.

If your intent was to come here and troll and spout non-sense like “time to spend some of that billionaire money”, I have news for you, it’s not going to work! This board is too board and smart to allow someone like you to mess it up spouting non-sense and foolishness.

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

By your criteria, last year's Rangers, D'backs, Phillies, Marlins, Rays, Jays, and Astros all had flaws in their roster that never got adequately addressed. And yet two of those teams were in the World Series, including the eventual champs.

And what happens when the Yanks address their four lineup spots that are OPSing .591, .677, .639, and .638, and replace their 4th- and 5th-most used relievers who've given up 25 runs in 39.2 innings? They may never lose again, right? Even though they're not terribly different from the team that won 82 games last year...

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that the Yanks don't end up playing .672 ball the whole year.

 

Not quite. Consider what the predictions were for those teams. The Rangers and Dbacks over performed, the Rays fell apart, so yes they did have some flaw that wasn’t addressed.

Nobody expected the Rangers to sweep, anymore than anyone expected the Royals to sweep in 2014. 

This year, the Orioles were a majority choice for another division crown, and many chose them as AL Pennant. I think that not getting the division would count as not meeting expectations.

Again, for those who read slowly, I understand that once the tourney starts anything can happen, and yes, I am aware that the Dbacks won 84 games and the pennant, and flawed teams beat wonderful teams on any given day.

But the orioles are expected to win the division, they are good enough to win the division, but have some bullpen flaws that have cost them multiple games so far. 

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, Philip said:

This year, the Orioles were a majority choice for another division crown, and many chose them as AL Pennant. I think that not getting the division would count as not meeting expectations.

The Orioles cannot control what other teams do.   They won 101 games last year.  Most people expected their win total this year to be down at least a few. So let’s say the Orioles win 105 games, as they’re on pace to do.  But the Yankees win 108.   Is that a case of the Orioles not meeting expectations?  Not in my book.   That’s a case of the Yankees wildly exceeding expectations.  

[DrungoHazewood]

42 minutes ago, Philip said:

Not quite. Consider what the predictions were for those teams. The Rangers and Dbacks over performed, the Rays fell apart, so yes they did have some flaw that wasn’t addressed.

Nobody expected the Rangers to sweep, anymore than anyone expected the Royals to sweep in 2014. 

This year, the Orioles were a majority choice for another division crown, and many chose them as AL Pennant. I think that not getting the division would count as not meeting expectations.

Again, for those who read slowly, I understand that once the tourney starts anything can happen, and yes, I am aware that the Dbacks won 84 games and the pennant, and flawed teams beat wonderful teams on any given day.

But the orioles are expected to win the division, they are good enough to win the division, but have some bullpen flaws that have cost them multiple games so far. 

The Orioles should make reasonable upgrades when it appears they would have a meaningful impact on their success, both now and in the future, regardless of the performance of other teams in the division or league. It would be ill-advised to look at the Yankees playing better than expected in late May and decide to make more aggressively short-term acquisitions (which almost by definition are potentially more damaging long-term) to try to catch up. When the more likely solution is to just keep playing good baseball, not over-reacting to short-term fluctuations, and making solid decisions.

[Just Regular]

In the wake of what the 2024 Phillies are doing, that 2023 NLCS result looks crazier every week.

It was Kimbrel wobbles that opened the door for Arizona, so I can get why Dombrowski was ready to move on.

Phillies are at OPACY regular season so I guess only one main pipeline to get Kimbrel to Philadelphia in this year's competitions.

[Frobby]

Last year at this time, the Rays were 38-16.   Two years ago, the Yankees were 39-15.   Neither of those teams kept up that pace.  I’m not that worried that these Yankees will.  I’m just focused on the Orioles winning as many games as they can.  

[DrungoHazewood]

On May 31st, 1980 the Yankees were 28-16, 4.5 games ahead of the 2nd place Brewers and 7.0 games ahead of the 22-24 Orioles. The Orioles were coming off a Division Championship and an AL Pennant, having gone to the 1979 World Series. They were the favorites to win the Division once again, but were under .500 as they went into June.

Mark Belanger was hitting .172 with a .380 OPS, and was 36 years old. Ken Singleton was hitting .238. Reigning Cy Young winner Mike Flanagan was 5-3, 3.78... meh. Kiko Garcia was playing almost everyday and hitting .162. Rich Dauer had a .611 OPS. Closer Tim Stoddard had three blown saves already. After leading the league in innings in '79, Dennis Martinez had pitched in just six games so far with an 8.22 ERA.

Clearly this is a team with some holes, some problems. And they had a few guys on the farm they could have dealt for help, like Cal Ripken (25 homers in AA that year), Mike Boddicker (2.18 ERA in AAA), Drungo Hazewood (28 homers in AA).

You know what they did to get back on track and try to catch the streaking Yankees, while ending up with 100 wins? Not a single thing. Literally, the entire season, they didn't make a single transaction that had an impact on the Major League roster. They made one trade, and neither player they received in the deal ever played for the major league Orioles.

What they did is trusted the decisions they'd made in the past, in the offseason, and in the spring. They had a very solid team, and they let the players work through problems. And they won 100 games, 2nd best in all of Major League baseball. Sure, in 1980 that meant no postseason, but they had a plan to win as many games as they could and they stuck to it. And they continued to have a very, very good team for the next three years, at least in part because nobody panicked, nobody traded Cal or Boddicker or anybody else.

In their World Championship season in '83 they stuck to the same plan: they made one minor trade (Rayford for Landrum) the whole year. Despite being in 3rd place on May 31st.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The Orioles should make reasonable upgrades when it appears they would have a meaningful impact on their success, both now and in the future, regardless of the performance of other teams in the division or league. It would be ill-advised to look at the Yankees playing better than expected in late May and decide to make more aggressively short-term acquisitions (which almost by definition are potentially more damaging long-term) to try to catch up. When the more likely solution is to just keep playing good baseball, not over-reacting to short-term fluctuations, and making solid decisions.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I have absolutely no interest in making a stupid trade. And I don’t advocate short term pickups. We would’ve won the division in 2014 even without Miller, for instance.

Were the Flaherty/Fuji trades bad? I’m not going to say they were(we didn’t give up much for either guy) but they weren’t meaningful, and each acquisition made it less likely that the significant acquisition we did need would occur.

The bullpen problem is not a short term fluctuation; everyone here advocates a meaningful acquisition.

And to @Frobby, I don’t think it’s just semantics to discuss the difference between somebody playing better than us, and us playing worse than them. If they win 108 and 105, many people here, including me, and maybe even including you, will complain about meaningful moves not being made soon enough. Games count, even in April.

Remember, sometimes you do everything right and lose anyway, and that’s OK. If they play better than we do, they deserve to win. But if we don’t address obvious issues and fall away so that they win, that will be a disappointment, even if the final is 108-105.