The 2024 Trade Deadline

[DrinkinWithFermi]

6 minutes ago, warrior21 said:

BUT...what if we could put together a package headlined by one of the big three, plus Stowers or Kjerstad and some other pieces for both Skubal and Flaherty? Rotation is set, for this year and strengthed for next year.

 

Find a bullpen piece as the cherry on top.

I would not do Holliday, Mayo, or Basallo, plus Kjerstad, plus other stuff of value for Skubal and Flaherty, whom I have no interest in a reunion with anyway.

8 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I don't see how that would be realistic since no other pitcher in the last decade has commanded a hall of 2 top 12-15 prospects. And certainly someone (while uber talented) yet still has a short resume like Skubal, cannot bring back that kind of haul.

However, IMO one of Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo should be on the table for a top end pitcher with control beyond this season.

I have a hard time believing that no one would want any of them. The issue is if Elias is willing to surrender one? I guess we will see by 6!

It isn't realistic at all, it's an embarrassingly buffoonish take.

[bpilktree67]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Do a deal for Nardi and Luzardo.

Trade for Erceg.

Luzardo is back in mid to late August. Your playoff pitching roster is:

Burnes, GRod, Luzardo (assuming health) and Eflin

Kimbrel, Nardi, Erceg, Seranthony, DC, Cano, Kremer and maybe Perez.

I’ll take that. I think that can be a shutdown pen and a high upside staff, especially if we can get Luzardo back on track.  I think we can do that and not give up any of the top 4 guys.

Where is Webb or are we trading for guys that have been worst then him just so we can make some trades?  Nardi is awful vs right handers with Ops of .871 vs them so don’t want him anywhere in playoffs when they will just pinch hit there extra bench guys to face him.  

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not arguing with that, I'm just saying "equal" is going to be hard.

You are probably going to have to "lose" the trades.

I would rather that we focus (and I am sure you would as well) on winning games and potentially chasing championships than winning trades.

If we have to surrender a bit more value than so be it.

I keep coming back to this, what is more important to success through multiple rounds in October, hitters 7- 9 being more "dangerous" than any other team? Or having 2/3 top end starting pitchers paired with an effective 1-3 back end relievers.

I just don't see a realistic path to championship success going about things that we that we are. You have to pitch in the Fall in order to win. Whether that is with your starters, or relievers, or a combination of both. You are not going to be able to out slug everyone. Because at the end of the day elite pitching can lock up good lineups.

I'm not saying that you are doing this, but IMO too many posters who are adocating for holding on to all of our valued prospects for the sake of future seasons are ignoring how bad the pitching has been over a nice sample size. If you take Burnes away from this team (as in next year if you don't resign him) what is the path to being in a better position next year?

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I would not do Holliday, Mayo, or Basallo, plus Kjerstad, plus other stuff of value for Skubal and Flaherty, whom I have no interest in a reunion with anyway.

It isn't realistic at all, it's an embarrassingly buffoonish take.

Trading one of Holliday, Mayo, or Basallo is "buffonish"? Who is it embarrassing to? You? Are you the arbitrator of all things reasonable?

If you think that, you might need to check the ego.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Trading one of Holliday, Mayo, or Basallo is "buffonish"? Who is it embarrassing to? You? Are you the arbitrator of all things reasonable?

If you think that, you might need to check the ego.

No, trading 2 or 3 of them, and implying that Basallo and Stowers were remotely close in trade value, as Morosi suggested, was buffoonish.

[bpilktree67]

1 hour ago, 24fps said:

The paltry return the White Sox got for Fedde and Kopech was easily beatable, so I wonder if Elias has a couple of better deals cooking. He clearly can’t be done at this point and I don’t believe that taking on salary is a problem any longer. I think something happens today. 

Depends what the White Sox see as beatable.  They went after very young but toolsy guys that will be ready around 2026.  That isn’t something we have a lot of so it would be hard for us to beat it. 

[E-D-D-I-E]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Why do we only get a chance at winning 1 if we make a trade?

I get that we all want the O's to contend for the long haul. But IMO it is going to require much more than Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo coming to the Major leagues.

We are going to have to continue to draft and develop position prospects well, spend significant money (in either extensions or FA), and find a way to infuse this roster with legit pitching talent. If Burnes walks in the offseason, what do you have even if you retain and integrate Mayo and Holliday.

If do not trade, how do you recommend that we balance the roster with pitching talent that can hold up it's end of the bargain?

Right now we are surrendering 6 runs over a sustain period (6 weeks). Holliday and Mayo cannot fix that. And this is with Burnes. Are we expecting to successfully outscore teams in high scoring games in October round after round? Or even through the regular season next year?

I agree with some of what your saying 

It's a flaw with Elias's drafting strat. If no one wants to trade pitching, you can have all the offense you want, it does you no good. Hence where the overpay comes in. I believe he is in that position now. We are short in the rotation, through no fault of his own and the names dangling have lots of risk, save for Skubal.

[interloper]

Has there been any firm indication that Skubal is officially off the market at this point? I'm kind of assuming he is, but don't believe I've seen anything. 

[Just Regular]

32 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Man, I can just hear Jon Morosi's stupid voice in my head saying we should trade Holliday, Mayo, "and either Samuel Basallo or Kyle Stowers" for Skubal.

It is simultaneously hilarious and infuriating.

Same as Jim Hunter touting a modest 2-game hitting streak.

Yandy Diaz interesting today - NYY, HOU and PIT in the scroll as a dark horse.     Would you rather:

A. Have Yandy protecting Judge/Soto

B. Have Yandy protecting Yordan

C. Have the Pirates do something dumb for the Rays

These are the challenges Danny Coulombe and Cionel Perez will be facing either this year or next.

[emmett16]

2 hours ago, dystopia said:

I mean, I’m sure every team has a plan for all of their players. Doesn’t mean it’s likely to happen. Maybe Houston gets lucky and he has a great 2nd half, but all his career numbers point to a mediocre pitcher that they just massively overpaid for. 

It’s about what he can do, not what he’s done.  By Stuff+ he has the 7th best fastball in MLB.  He has two other above average offerings as well (his CU grades almost equal to Tyler Anderson).  Pure stuff+ has him at 11th best pitcher in MLB. Astros know what to look for and how to get the most out of pitchers.  I best you he outperforms his numbers the remainder of the season. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

I agree with some of what your saying 

It's a flaw with Elias's drafting strat. If no one wants to trade pitching, you can have all the offense you want, it does you no good. Hence where the overpay comes in. I believe he is in that position now. We are short in the rotation, through no fault of his own and the names dangling have lots of risk, save for Skubal.

How so?

This is his roster, it's his farm system.

How is he without any fault?

[1fingerwillie]

11 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Why do we only get a chance at winning 1 if we make a trade?

I get that we all want the O's to contend for the long haul. But IMO it is going to require much more than Holliday, Mayo, and Basallo coming to the Major leagues.

We are going to have to continue to draft and develop position prospects well, spend significant money (in either extensions or FA), and find a way to infuse this roster with legit pitching talent. If Burnes walks in the offseason, what do you have even if you retain and integrate Mayo and Holliday.

If do not trade, how do you recommend that we balance the roster with pitching talent that can hold up it's end of the bargain?

Right now we are surrendering 6 runs over a sustain period (6 weeks). Holliday and Mayo cannot fix that. And this is with Burnes. Are we expecting to successfully outscore teams in high scoring games in October round after round? Or even through the regular season next year?

I think you and I have a different expectation of what this team will do when those three come to the majors. 

We just upgraded both the rotation and bullpen for 25. I expect we will add more to the rotation and bullpen this winter. 

By 26 when we could have a truly historic lineup, I think the pitching will be quite well balanced.

 

 

[waroriole]

5 minutes ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

I agree with some of what your saying 

It's a flaw with Elias's drafting strat. If no one wants to trade pitching, you can have all the offense you want, it does you no good. Hence where the overpay comes in. I believe he is in that position now. We are short in the rotation, through no fault of his own and the names dangling have lots of risk, save for Skubal.

Through no fault of his own??? He didn’t know Means and Bradish were damaged goods coming into this season? He made no effort to acquire any SP besides Burnes. 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

Where is Webb or are we trading for guys that have been worst then him just so we can make some trades?  Nardi is awful vs right handers with Ops of .871 vs them so don’t want him anywhere in playoffs when they will just pinch hit there extra bench guys to face him.  

Webb can compete with Perez for the final spot. I don’t care if he’s there or not.

[24fps]

5 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

Depends what the White Sox see as beatable.  They went after very young but toolsy guys that will be ready around 2026.  That isn’t something we have a lot of so it would be hard for us to beat it. 

Chris Getz's defense of his trade will certainly make for some interesting reading.