Bergesen optioned to Triple A

[Lt Melmo]

I'm just pointing out that MacPhail isn't always right, no matter how many people insist every move he makes is...

Everyone else here is just trying to point out to you that MacPhail isn't always wrong. You make these problems for yourself. Did you notice how this thread started out with everyone complaining? You have to realize that you make everyone else like MacPhail more.

[TCAlumni9700]

MacPhail can be and has been wrong, but there is no reason to over dramatize every poor decision he makes.

The move to option Bergesen to AAA to start the season is not that big of a deal long term or short term really.

I don't think it's over dramatizing when quite a few people, myself included, agree.

To me, this move does nothing except hurt the morale of players in our system who think they have a shot.

I'm ready for 2010 as much as everyone else, but I can't believe that PA, AM, and DT think that anyone will want to watch this crap rotation we're about to see (minus Guthrie).

[JTrea81]

Everyone else here is just trying to point out to you that MacPhail isn't always wrong. You make these problems for yourself. Did you notice how this thread started out with everyone complaining? You have to realize that you make everyone else like MacPhail more.

I don't have any problems on this board and I don't care about people liking MacPhail. I care about the Orioles winning and putting a winning product on the field. MacPhail doesn't seem to care about that much and is sticking to a plan that is slow and tedious when there are several shortcuts along the way that will get us there faster but may involve some risk and spending some money.

It's just so frustrating to see that he won't expedite the process and is intent on dragging the Orioles' losing streak out as long as possible. It's almost like he doesn't want the ML team to succeed. We've had 11 losing seasons soon to be 12 and that just doesn't seem to matter to him. Why should people pay to see this joke of a rotation throw games? What is the incentive to go to games when the Orioles don't care about the product they have on the field? You can only say "just wait" so many times. The Orioles have been saying it for 11 years now...

[Crazysilver03]

I don't think it's over dramatizing when quite a few people, myself included, agree.

To me, this move does nothing except hurt the morale of players in our system who think they have a shot.

I'm ready for 2010 as much as everyone else, but I can't believe that PA, AM, and DT think that anyone will want to watch this crap rotation we're about to see (minus Guthrie).

Do you agree with every criticism JTrea has of MacPhail. I wasn't referring to this one move in particular.

People are pulling for strings when they say this hurts the morale of players. Only Reimold and Bergesen had arguments to make the Orioles out of ST, but they understand that this is a business and they have to earn their way on to the team with performance in Norfolk.

I would think AM & DT don't even want to watch what will be on the field for the next six weeks but they know that is what is in the best interest of the organization moving forward.

[scOtt]

I'm late to the party, but this isn't so much. It seems like a numbers crunch to me, too many guys w/o options. It sucks because Berg pitched very well, but he will still be pitching well somewhere. He's still in the fold. It's good depth to have.

Think what we had last year to bring up in May. This year we can call up Bergesen, to step right into the rotation. Eaton, Pauley, Baez et al. One of them won't last.

[Crazysilver03]

I don't have any problems on this board and I don't care about people liking MacPhail. I care about the Orioles winning and putting a winning product on the field. MacPhail doesn't seem to care about that much and is sticking to a plan that is slow and tedious when there are several shortcuts along the way that will get us there faster but may involve some risk and spending some money.

It's just so frustrating to see that he won't expedite the process and is intent on dragging the Orioles' losing streak out as long as possible. It's almost like he doesn't want the ML team to succeed. We've had 11 losing seasons soon to be 12 and that just doesn't seem to matter to him. Why should people pay to see this joke of a rotation throw games? What is the incentive to go to games when the Orioles don't care about the product they have on the field? You can only say "just wait" so many times. The Orioles have been saying it for 11 years now...

I can't believe you actually believe some of the crap you spew from your fingers.

If MacPhail didn't care, he wouldn't have brought in Pie, Zaun, Scott, Jones, Moore, Tillman, and Hill, among other players he obtained by following his mantra.

[JTrea81]

Isn't always right? You've got me convinced that you don't think he does anything right.

I've given him credit for many things. The extension of Markakis for one. But there are just simply things that he's doing or not doing that are delaying us from winning sooner. That is what is so frustrating.

It shouldn't have to be this painful or this long to wait for the Orioles to finally go back to their winning ways. Not when you have the resources that the Orioles do.

[PrivateO]

I've given him credit for many things. The extension of Markakis for one. But there are just simply things that he's doing or not doing that are delaying us from winning sooner. That is what is so frustrating.

It shouldn't have to be this painful or this long to wait for the Orioles to finally go back to their winning ways. Not when you have the resources that the Orioles do.

Honest question: Do you think, with Brad Bergesen in the rotation, that the Orioles would be a winning team in 2009?

My assumption of sports was to form the best possible team so that you may contend for the championship. Right now, in 2009, I don't see the Orioles doing that, with or without Bergesen. Next year, the year after, or the year after that probably, but it is a different story.

[Mike B]

I don't think it's over dramatizing when quite a few people, myself included, agree.

To me, this move does nothing except hurt the morale of players in our system who think they have a shot.

I'm ready for 2010 as much as everyone else, but I can't believe that PA, AM, and DT think that anyone will want to watch this crap rotation we're about to see (minus Guthrie).

I really thought Bergessen was going to be the one who broke camp and I still think that once the season settles into the day to day grind guys like Troy Patton (if healthy and pitching well) and BB will be here. Maybe the decision was to get BB at the top of the Tides rotation so when the rain outs hit, and they will they can keep him pitching every 5th day. Maybe when the weather turns warm in May he will get the call. They may also want to keep the young guys from a steady diet of Yankees,Red Sox and Rays to start their career.

As for hurting the morale, I do not buy that. A good player, mentally tough player will go down and prove them wrong. The Orioles for years were slow to call up their young prospects and guys like Grich, Baylor, Boddicker, Flannagan etc. did alright.

I have no desire to watch Eaton either but BB's career did not end today. Too much drama in this thread IMO.

[Three Run Homer]

I don't have any problems on this board and I don't care about people liking MacPhail. I care about the Orioles winning and putting a winning product on the field. MacPhail doesn't seem to care about that much and is sticking to a plan that is slow and tedious when there are several shortcuts along the way that will get us there faster but may involve some risk and spending some money.

It's just so frustrating to see that he won't expedite the process and is intent on dragging the Orioles' losing streak out as long as possible. It's almost like he doesn't want the ML team to succeed. We've had 11 losing seasons soon to be 12 and that just doesn't seem to matter to him. Why should people pay to see this joke of a rotation throw games? What is the incentive to go to games when the Orioles don't care about the product they have on the field? You can only say "just wait" so many times. The Orioles have been saying it for 11 years now...

I share a lot of the frustration of this post. This move, even more so than the likely farming out of Weiters, signifies that MacPhail has completely written off the 2009 season before it has even begun. At least with Weiters we understand the need to preserve his service time because he's likely going to be a superstar and because his agent his Scott Boras. Neither rationale holds with Bergesen.

So we're going to be stuck watching a bunch of crummy old pitchers with no upside for the first couple of months of the season. By the time Bergesen or anyone else gets a shot the season will be over from a competitive standpoint.

If MacPhail doesn't care about winning this season, why should he expect anybody to pay money to watch this team?

[JTrea81]

I can't believe you actually believe some of the crap you spew from your fingers.

If MacPhail didn't care, he wouldn't have brought in Pie, Zaun, Scott, Jones, Moore, Tillman, and Hill, among other players he obtained by following his mantra.

That's great, but Tillman is going to be in AAA or AA and Hill on the DL. There were solid options for the rotation that would have put us in a much better position and would have made it much more justifiable to send our younger arms down to the minors to work on things.

When your minor leaguers are outpitching the guys you are going to have in your ML rotation, what is the point of paying those guys to throw batting practice? What exactly are you gaining?

[JTrea81]

Honest question: Do you think, with Brad Bergesen in the rotation, that the Orioles would be a winning team in 2009?

My assumption of sports was to form the best possible team so that you may contend for the championship. Right now, in 2009, I don't see the Orioles doing that, with or without Bergesen. Next year, the year after, or the year after that probably, but it is a different story.

It's not just that. Put Matusz, Arrieta and Bergesen in the rotation. Arrieta and Matusz have pitched in college. They are big boys and won't be traumatized by the ML experience IMO. Bergesen seems to also have a good head on his shoulders.

Give the fans something positive to watch. You can say they have to earn their spot, but from their ST performances they deserve to be in the rotation more than the guys that are going to be taking their spots. Fans will understand that these guys will have to go through some growing pains, but they will also show flashes of brillance as well. What fans won't want to watch is a bunch of journeymen guys who are just marking time throwing batting practice that have no future with the Orioles.

When we were rushing players, we were putting 20 year olds only a few years removed from HS in the rotation. Now it seems that MacPhail is taking it to the other extreme by holding pitchers back despite them showing they are ready.

[PrivateO]

It's not just that. Put Matusz, Arrieta and Bergesen in the rotation. Arrieta and Matusz have pitched in college. They are big boys and won't be traumatized by the ML experience IMO. Bergesen seems to also have a good head on his shoulders.

Give the fans something positive to watch. You can say they have to earn their spot, but from their ST performances they deserve to be in the rotation more than the guys that are going to be taking their spots. Fans will understand that these guys will have to go through some growing pains, but they will also show flashes of brilliance as well. What fans won't want to watch is a bunch of journeymen guys who are just marking time throwing batting practice that have no future with the Orioles.

When we were rushing players, we were putting 20 year olds only a few years removed from HS in the rotation. Now it seems that MacPhail is taking it to the other extreme by holding pitchers back despite them showing they are ready.

I agree with you that fans will enjoy seeing fresh, new faces that will potentially be the great arms of the future. However, for me, it sounded like you were saying that Bergesen would jump-start the O's into a winning team. I just don't see that happening.

In regards to your last paragraph, I'd much rather see MacPhail be his patient self and hold pitchers in the minors longer instead of placing them in the rotation and such a young age and with little experience.

[blid]

What did I post in that thread about predicting the last three starters?

Adam Eaton, Chris Waters, and Danys Baez, baby!

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

[Crazysilver03]

What did I post in that thread about predicting the last three starters?

The only problem with your prediction is that Waters has been converted to a reliever, so unless something drastic happens in the next two weeks, Water's starting days are over with the Orioles.