Bergesen optioned to Triple A

[Sports Guy]

Eh, the downside of losing 5, 10, or even 20 starts of Bergesen on the MLB club is what? A few ugly losses at the MLB level at the hands of Eaton or Baez or Simon?

Meanwhile there's a possibility, however remote, that Baez could be useful or turn into something useful. He did have a pretty decent run early in 2007. Maybe with improved defense and a little luck/health, Eaton could have a fluky-good first half and turn into another Scott Moore.

We leveraged Steve Trachsel's negative number K:BB ratio into something useful, after all.

I am not upset over the sending down of BB as I am what it likely means.

I have said for weeks now that it doesn't matter who is on the OD roster as long as we aren't losing guys for these scrub vets.

That being said, doing smart things are usually preferred.

[SilentJames]

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

And they are dumb to do this.

[TyCobb]

Eh, the downside of losing 5, 10, or even 20 starts of Bergesen on the MLB club is what? A few ugly losses at the MLB level at the hands of Eaton or Baez or Simon?

Meanwhile there's a possibility, however remote, that Baez could be useful or turn into something useful. He did have a pretty decent run early in 2007. Maybe with improved defense and a little luck/health, Eaton could have a fluky-good first half and turn into another Scott Moore.

We leveraged Steve Trachsel's negative number K:BB ratio into something useful, after all.

The problem is I don't have the patience to wait until August. At least our Defense will be getting a work out.

[NCRaven]

I could swear that many of the people claiming that it's dumb, stupid or lazy to send Brad Bergesen down now are some of the very same people that spent months telling us that his low strike out totals meant he could not be successful as major league pitcher. Now it's the end of the world when the FO sends him out to AAA. Amusing.

[bluedog]

None of us knows.

I think its obvious why and its been stated about 1000 times on this board by dozens of different posters. But I'll reiterate one more time.

1. There are players on the O's roster who are out of options including Penn, Pauley and Bass. Because the O's won't be able to carry all of the pitchers they currently have vying for a spot, keeping any pitcher who has options (Bergesen, Liz, etc) will force the O's to expose one or more pitchers they'd like to hang onto (Penn, Bass) to waivers. Whether we think that Penn or Bass has a future with this club or not doesn't change the fact that AM and Kranitz don't want to simply dump players who might have value unless they absolutely have to. Given that everyone in the known universe understands that this is a rebuilding year for the O's makes it abundantly clear that this is the time to give players like Bass and Penn a chance to stick at the major league level - possibly their last chance to do so with the O's. Kranitz is a good enough coach and has resurrected enough careers that he might just be able to help Penn recapture the ability that led him to become a top O's prospect just a few years ago. The O's have been notorious in the past decade about giving up on young pitchers too early, throwing them on the garbage heap and moving on to the next guy - case and point is John Maine. AM clearly wants to make sure that he doesn't lose someone like Penn to waivers only to see him become John Maine part II with another team.

2. In order for the O's to compete over the long term with the Red Sox and Yankees, they must take advantage of every trick in the book to conserve salary and maximize the value of the players under their control. Delaying the debut of players like Wieters, Bergesen and Reimold until June gives the O's a full year of additional control over these players. We're talking tens of millions of dollars of savings for the O's down the road. In Wieters case it might mean 20+ million dollars in savings, but even for someone like Bergy, if he's a capable #4 or #5 starter he could command 10M a year at that point in his career. It also increases all of these player's trade value - if in a year or two we have to many arms in the rotation / outfield and we need to move Bergy or Reimold, the extra year of team control boosts their value considerably to potential trade partners.

3. AM has be working his a** off since he got here to change the culture of this organization and turn it into a winner. So far, he's been extremely true to his word. He said he'd rebuild around pitching and defense and he has. He said he'd give young players a shot and look to stockpile talent in the minors and he has. He's indicated he won't rush young players to the majors and he's avoided doing so even though he's arguably got the most highly touted catching prospect in the history of the organization in Wieters. A man is only as good as his word and thus far, AM has proven to the players and fans alike that what he says is what he means. AM and Kranitz have repeatedly said they want pitchers to work their way up through A / AA / AAA and have success at each level before they are promoted. To go and jump Bergesen to the bigs without going through AAA first would undermine AM's credibility with the players. When dealing with young players, organizations need to be behave in a consistent, logical and honest manner and that's what McPhail is doing here.

4. The O's have jumped a lot of players straight to the bigs from AA in the last decade. In almost every case, these players have failed (Markakis being the notable exception). In particular, pitchers who've been moved to the bigs without having considerable success at AAA have gotten shelled and most have taken hits to their confidence and ended up struggling mightily on their return to the minors. Given that we're not expected to contend this year, why even risk having the same thing happen to Bergesen? It's not worth the risk and AM clearly understands this.

[Crazysilver03]

Someone had to go to provide innings for Penn/Pauley/Baez/Eaton/Bass. Unfortunately, Bergesen is the one to go so there are innings for everyone else.

[Hank Scorpio]

Allow me to pull a SG, here...

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1675575&postcount=59

[RShack]

The problem is I don't have the patience to wait until August. At least our Defense will be getting a work out.

Dude, who do you think you're kidding?

You signed up here in Oct 2005, fer cryin' out loud ;-)

[BaltimoreTerp]

Someone had to go to provide innings for Penn/Pauley/Baez/Eaton/Bass. Unfortunately, Bergesen is the one to go so there are innings for everyone else.

Why does anyone have to provide innings for Baez and Eaton?

[bluedog]

If it is being done intelligently and not blindly and lazily, yes it is. Just like any other legitimate plan.

What part of anything that AM has done since he's gotten here has been blind or lazy?

What exactly does AM have to do in order to earn some goodwill with you?

[Crazysilver03]

Why does anyone have to provide innings for Baez and Eaton?

Because if you want to admit it or not, those are the top candidates for the rotation. MacPhail wants to see what he can get out of them and they need to be stretched out, especially with Guthrie coming back and hopefully Uehara and Hill getting a start or two.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What part of anything that AM has done since he's gotten here has been blind or lazy?

What exactly does AM have to do in order to earn some goodwill with you?

If you don't think he has goodwill with me, you haven't paid any attention for two years.

Why can't someone just be wrong from time to time? We're all human, including Andy MacPhail.

[RShack]

What part of anything that AM has done since he's gotten here has been blind or lazy?

What exactly does AM have to do in order to earn some goodwill with you?

I'm guessing "Promote guys when BTerp thinks they're ready." Whaddya think?

[bluedog]

Why does anyone have to provide innings for Baez and Eaton?

The O's are on the hook for millions for Baez. Clearly they are loathe to dump him if they can get any portion of their investment back. That's just good business sense. It doesn't mean they won't cut him ala Gibbons, but it means they aren't going to be flippant about it and flush 4M bucks down the drain just because you and SG don't think he has any value.

I haven't seen anywhere that Eaton has locked up a spot on this team. Until he does, whining about AM keeping him over other players is foolish. At least wait to see if he makes the team before you burn AM at the stake.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Because if you want to admit it or not, those are the top candidates for the rotation. MacPhail wants to see what he can get out of them and they need to be stretched out, especially with Guthrie coming back and hopefully Uehara and Hill getting a start or two.

But WHY ARE THEY! That's the point!

Baez can be understood, but like Gibbons last year sometimes you just have to dump a guy. Eaton has never made any sense in my mind unless you want just the "veteran presence" no matter how much evidence there is that he is awful.

If we were going to just go with Pauley and Bass and Penn for sure, then this would be much less of an issue. At least there you have some potential. But bringing in Eaton solely as a placeholder doesn't make sense unless you don't want him as one, but as an actual member of the rotation.