Bergesen optioned to Triple A

[bej6789]

Topic MVP: Bluedog

I'm trying to put this into perspective. I think it can universally (maybe not universal) agreed upon that Bergesen is going to be one of the first pitchers called up. Going along with that, I think, barring something totally unforseen, that it's also safe to say that Adam Eaton ain't gonna be around very long in Baltimore. He's just what this board has him labeled as -- a placeholder. Getting overworked about a player who, conservatively, would be called up in June is like saying "OH MY GOD!!!! We won't get 7 starts out of Bergesen!!!" Just think about this. We're talking about a #4 starter, at best. We're not winning any more games with him, and this isn't an icon of Wieters proportion. This is Brad Bergesen. Yes, he definately deserved a spot on this years rotation, however I think it's safe to say that him being down only a few months at most shows a plan is in place. Seeing Adam Eaton is going to get old quick, and it will make it that much sweeter when Bergesen is finally on the hill in Baltimore.

[JTrea81]

Topic MVP: Bluedog

I'm trying to put this into perspective. I think it can universally (maybe not universal) agreed upon that Bergesen is going to be one of the first pitchers called up. Going along with that, I think, barring something totally unforseen, that it's also safe to say that Adam Eaton ain't gonna be around very long in Baltimore. He's just what this board has him labeled as -- a placeholder. Getting overworked about a player who, conservatively, would be called up in June is like saying "OH MY GOD!!!! We won't get 7 starts out of Bergesen!!!" Just think about this. We're talking about a #4 starter, at best. We're not winning any more games with him, and this isn't an icon of Wieters proportion. This is Brad Bergesen. Yes, he definately deserved a spot on this years rotation, however I think it's safe to say that him being down only a few months at most shows a plan is in place. Seeing Adam Eaton is going to get old quick, and it will make it that much sweeter when Bergesen is finally on the hill in Baltimore.

What is Bergesen going to learn in 7 starts in AAA that he won't learn in Baltimore? It makes no sense to leave him down there for only a month or two. Why do we need to see Eaton fail first when we know it is going to happen? Just cut him now and give somebody else his spot.

If Bergesen does struggle in the majors, then you can send him back down. But sending him down when he's outpitched everybody in camp is not the right thing to do at this point, not when your rotation needs somebody to offer what Bergesen appears to be capable of. 2 months of AAA isn't suddenly going to have something click for Bergesen IMO. He is what he is and those innings would be much more valuable in Baltimore than in Norfolk. The Orioles need him now more than the Tides do...

[bluedog]

I share a lot of the frustration of this post. This move, even more so than the likely farming out of Weiters, signifies that MacPhail has completely written off the 2009 season before it has even begun. At least with Weiters we understand the need to preserve his service time because he's likely going to be a superstar and because his agent his Scott Boras. Neither rationale holds with Bergesen.

So we're going to be stuck watching a bunch of crummy old pitchers with no upside for the first couple of months of the season. By the time Bergesen or anyone else gets a shot the season will be over from a competitive standpoint.

If MacPhail doesn't care about winning this season, why should he expect anybody to pay money to watch this team?

You really believe that getting Bergesen an extra half dozen starts at the beginning of the season is going to be the difference between the O's competing and not competing this season?

Really?

I mean REALLY?

And if not, you believe getting a half dozen starts that won't actually help the O's make the playoffs in 2009 is worth giving up an entire year of control for a player who could be a key part of the O's team in 6 years when we all expect them to be able to compete?

Seriously - please explain what the actual benefit of having Bergesen up to start 2009 as opposed to a month or so later is?

[JTrea81]

You really believe that getting Bergesen an extra half dozen starts at the beginning of the season is going to be the difference between the O's competing and not competing this season?

Really?

I mean REALLY?

And if not, you believe getting a half dozen starts that won't actually help the O's make the playoffs in 2009 is worth giving up an entire year of control for a player who could be a key part of the O's team in 6 years when we all expect them to be able to compete?

Seriously - please explain what the actual benefit of having Bergesen up to start 2009 as opposed to a month or so later is?

If we can't replace Bergesen in 6 years, we are going to be in sad shape as an organization. For a guy that supposedly can't cut it in the majors with his low K/9 a lot of people are suddenly thinking he's going to win the Cy Young.

Service time should not be an issue with any pitcher anyway as we should constantly have a stockpile in the minors to draw from or be able to sign FA pitchers to supplement our arms.

And the benefit to having Bergesen in the rotation is that you might have a pitcher that will be able to throw 7 innings consistantly other than Guthrie which would save the bullpen arms. The bullpen is going to be burnt out by the end of May with the arms we are going to be putting in there now IMO.

[bluedog]

If we can't replace Bergesen in 6 years, we are going to be in sad shape as an organization. For a guy that supposedly can't cut it in the majors with his low K/9 a lot of people are suddenly thinking he's going to win the Cy Young.

Service time should not be an issue with any pitcher anyway as we should constantly have a stockpile in the minors to draw from or be able to sign FA pitchers to supplement our arms.

And the benefit to having Bergesen in the rotation is that you might have a pitcher that will be able to throw 7 innings consistantly other than Guthrie which would save the bullpen arms. The bullpen is going to be burnt out by the end of May with the arms we are going to be putting in there now IMO.

I've never said Bergesen can't cut it. I believe his exceptional accuracy and his intelligence gives him the chance to be a great, control based pitcher for the O's for years to come. Unlike you, I'm not willing to make assumptions now about what might happen 6 years from now based on pure guesswork.

By starting Bergesen in the majors you ensure that you've lost an extra year of control. That's a fact. Whether or not he'll be with the O's in 6 years and whether or not he'll be replaceable are complete unknowns at this point.

And lets assume you are right and he did start the season with the O's and averaged 7 innings (a big if) per start for even 8 starts that he won't get if he's goes to AAA to beging the year. Assuming the guy that gets his spot averages 5 innings a start that's a difference of 16 innings total that the pen would have to make up. With us carrying an 8 man pen that's an average of 2 more innings per reliever over a 6 week period. That's gonna burn out our pen? Really?

Considering the guy who'd almost certainly get the bulk of those innings would be either Hendrickson, Baez or Bass (the long relievers) and that no one here seems to care what happens to those guys - why do we care about burning them out?

And you sure are cavalier about being able to replace a guy 6 years from now who you obviously believe is so frightenling essential to the well-being of the O's now that we can't even wait a few weeks to get him into the rotation.

Still waiting for a valid reason why starting Bergesen with the O's is preferable to the half dozen good reasons we have to send him down for a few weeks.

[JTrea81]

Still waiting for a valid reason why starting Bergesen with the O's is preferable to the half dozen good reasons we have to send him down for a few weeks.

Matt Albers, Jim Johnson, George Sherrill.

All bullpen pitchers who were injured during 2008 because we didn't have anybody that could eat innings in the rotation besides Guthrie so Trembley used them excessively and they got hurt as a result. Johnson and Albers are still having problems.

Bergesen could help make sure that doesn't happen again. And you know Trembley isn't going to use all 8 men in the bullpen. He'll choose his select few and ride them and 1 guy isn't going to pitch for a week or so. That's the way he operates.

[Enjoy Terror]

Really? No one gets this move? This is pretty simple if you aren't getting it.

Brad Bergesen has options. He's never pitched above AA. He can stay in the minors and not cost the team a dime.

On that note, pitchers like Baez and Hendrickson have contracts. They won't be demoted; they get paid too much to not be on the team.

Also, pitchers without options get to be on the team since cutting them means you are going to have to do without them. Putting Bergesen on the team means cutting someone like Hill. Or Penn. Or Eaton. Or someone without options that you wouldn't have to cut if you keep everyone with an option in the minors until you absolutely can't stand to have those pitchers on your team. This is safety in numbers.

I'm more flabbergasted by the so called "Orioles fans" on the Hangout who really do not grasp Orioles front office roster management. I have said time and time again that Bergesen would never make the opening day team. It JUST DOESN'T FIT.

[Joe'sO's]

I was ticked when I first saw Brad was sent down but here's the situation.Once you get past the rotation,no matter who's in it, the O's don't really have that much starting depth without chewing into the big 3. So this is a move to preserve the depth. Bergesen is part of that firewall. Berken and Hernandez are also but further down the road. This team has been running out of pitchers at the end of the year for years and this year won't be any different. Injuries and ineffectiveness will have these guys up here before you know it.

It's something to look forward to,if nothing else.

[AgentOrange]

Exactly.

Every day seems to move closer to making me the least excited I've ever been for an Orioles season.

So I guess this move is the straw that broke the back?

You have to be kidding me. If you are not excited about this season and some of the developments that could happen, I can't help you.

Pie

Hill

Markakis

Jones

Wieters

Uehara

You can't get excited about seeing these players this season?

Last year, what did you have?

Makakis

Jones

I could see how sending Bergesen down to start the season would really upset you, just not enough on the ML roster to get excited about...

[Sports Guy]

You really believe that getting Bergesen an extra half dozen starts at the beginning of the season is going to be the difference between the O's competing and not competing this season?

Really?

I mean REALLY?

And if not, you believe getting a half dozen starts that won't actually help the O's make the playoffs in 2009 is worth giving up an entire year of control for a player who could be a key part of the O's team in 6 years when we all expect them to be able to compete?

Seriously - please explain what the actual benefit of having Bergesen up to start 2009 as opposed to a month or so later is?

Just to be clear then...You believe no player should ever be brought up at the end of a season, nor the beginning of the season...Is that right?

[Fairfax Bird]

Matt Albers, Jim Johnson, George Sherrill.

All bullpen pitchers who were injured during 2008 because we didn't have anybody that could eat innings in the rotation besides Guthrie so Trembley used them excessively and they got hurt as a result. Johnson and Albers are still having problems.

Bergesen could help make sure that doesn't happen again. And you know Trembley isn't going to use all 8 men in the bullpen. He'll choose his select few and ride them and 1 guy isn't going to pitch for a week or so. That's the way he operates.

What makes you think a rookie is going to eat innings? I know his history, but he has never faced this level of competition.

[Mike B]

Really? No one gets this move? This is pretty simple if you aren't getting it.

Brad Bergesen has options. He's never pitched above AA. He can stay in the minors and not cost the team a dime.

On that note, pitchers like Baez and Hendrickson have contracts. They won't be demoted; they get paid too much to not be on the team.

Also, pitchers without options get to be on the team since cutting them means you are going to have to do without them. Putting Bergesen on the team means cutting someone like Hill. Or Penn. Or Eaton. Or someone without options that you wouldn't have to cut if you keep everyone with an option in the minors until you absolutely can't stand to have those pitchers on your team. This is safety in numbers.

I'm more flabbergasted by the so called "Orioles fans" on the Hangout who really do not grasp Orioles front office roster management. I have said time and time again that Bergesen would never make the opening day team. It JUST DOESN'T FIT.

Exactly, but why use common sense when out rage will fit.

[Sports Guy]

Really? No one gets this move? This is pretty simple if you aren't getting it.

Brad Bergesen has options. He's never pitched above AA. He can stay in the minors and not cost the team a dime.

On that note, pitchers like Baez and Hendrickson have contracts. They won't be demoted; they get paid too much to not be on the team.

Also, pitchers without options get to be on the team since cutting them means you are going to have to do without them. Putting Bergesen on the team means cutting someone like Hill. Or Penn. Or Eaton. Or someone without options that you wouldn't have to cut if you keep everyone with an option in the minors until you absolutely can't stand to have those pitchers on your team. This is safety in numbers.

I'm more flabbergasted by the so called "Orioles fans" on the Hangout who really do not grasp Orioles front office roster management. I have said time and time again that Bergesen would never make the opening day team. It JUST DOESN'T FIT.

Baez gets paid whether he is on the team or not.

Cutting Eaton is no big deal at all.

[crawdad]

Matt Albers, Jim Johnson, George Sherrill.

All bullpen pitchers who were injured during 2008 because we didn't have anybody that could eat innings in the rotation besides Guthrie so Trembley used them excessively and they got hurt as a result. Johnson and Albers are still having problems.

Bergesen could help make sure that doesn't happen again. And you know Trembley isn't going to use all 8 men in the bullpen. He'll choose his select few and ride them and 1 guy isn't going to pitch for a week or so. That's the way he operates.

I think the link between overuse and injury in these pitchers is rather tenuous at best.

Albers pitched on consecutive days three times. All three of this times followed outings where he pitched a third of an inning. He was typically given 2 or more days of rest. The year before he threw 110 innings. To say that Trembley's use of Albers resulted in his injury . . . it is a logically flawed statement. Torn labrums are also not considered 'overuse' injuries.

James Johnson and George Sherrill? Yeah, they were overused all season long, but both had developed the attitude and aura of wanting and being able to pitch on consecutive days with no decrease in performance. The Orioles were surely in a fix with poor starting pitching and a thin bullpen. I can definitely see how their use could have contributed to injuries.

His style of managing his pitchers definitely is one where he is trying to win every game, which I would argue is a poor way of doing it this year. That said . . . as a manager of a squad going nowhere, you have to give the appearance of competing without sacrificing your players. In the playoff race, you can sacrifice guys a little bit (i.e. suturing a tendon during a playoff game). Trembley tends to lean on his hot hands a bit, but I would not say he really ignored a lot of guys. Much of the problem was actually this . . . he had Jamie Walker and Chad Bradford in his bullpen. When two of your pen are essentially situation pitchers, it makes for some hairy situations when you starting pitchers have difficulty going six innings. This was something I have harped on at times in the past (though not on here) . . . situational pitchers are worthless if you do not have a steady, solid rotation (3-4 dependable starters). Beyond that, you lose your leverage in relief situations because you no longer can define roles. What we need is actually a bunch of swing guys like Hendrikson, Uehara, Hennessey, Penn, Pauley, Simon, etc. These are the kind of guys that are useful. Maybe the ones who show they cannot handle a starters load look slightly better going 2-3 innings similar to how Brian Burres was for a year or two in that role.

[NewMarketSean]

I think the O's realize they are going to be using a lot of pitchers this season and they want to protect themselves against it. So they are going to use the Baezs and Eatons of the world as well as the Basses and Penns too, hope that they can eat some innings, and then call up guys like Bergesen, Hernandez and Patton.

It sounds like they at least have their priorities straight.

1. Get through the season.

2. Rotate in young talent when they are ready.