Bergesen optioned to Triple A

[bluedog]

No it wasn't. Adam Eaton has "proven" over the last three years that he is a terrible, terrible pitcher.

If you look at the CHONE projections (among the best for statistically projecting pitchers), he's about the 424th best starting pitcher in baseball, not counting any relievers who could be converted to starters. That sounds about right for a guy with a 6+ ERA over 268 innings (49 starts) the last two years.

And if the goal for having him in camp was to provide quality innings or win games, he'd be a horrible choice. That's obviously not the goal. The goal is to have a warm body who, if all else fails, can pitch in the bigs temporarily until we get Hill back or until AM deems one of the young guys as being ready to move up.

AM could have gotten a better pitcher than Eaton if he wanted to - but he'd have had to sign him to a major league deal, paid him significantly more money and possibly given him a multi-year deal. All of these things are wildly counterproductive if all you are looking for is insurance.

It is irrelevant how well he pitches for the O's. Even if he does make the team he'll be the first guy cut once the O's have a better option available.

[Sports Guy]

And if the goal for having him in camp was to provide quality innings or win games, he'd be a horrible choice. That's obviously not the goal. The goal is to have a warm body who, if all else fails, can pitch in the bigs temporarily until we get Hill back or until AM deems one of the young guys as being ready to move up.

AM could have gotten a better pitcher than Eaton if he wanted to - but he'd have had to sign him to a major league deal, paid him significantly more money and possibly given him a multi-year deal. All of these things are wildly counterproductive if all you are looking for is insurance.

It is irrelevant how well he pitches for the O's. Even if he does make the team he'll be the first guy cut once the O's have a better option available.

We have younger guys who can do this that are out of options and they have a chance to be a piece long term...Eaton doesn't.

It really is as simple as that.

[wildcard]

I think the guy that benefits the most from sending Bergesen down is Bass. He has outpitched Baez so far. Baez has to pitch well or he will end up in the pen.

It is a very curious move though.

[dslats715]

I don't want to Chicken Little all over the place here.

Would I have liked to see him? Sure, but that goes for Tillman/Arrieta too. I understand why they keep them down, but that doesn't mean I won't cringe/be ill watching 32+ somethings putting me to sleep in April.

[bluedog]

Agree or disagree with this move (and I trust the braintrust's judgment as to what the optimal developmental step is for BB at this point, as I have no basis to know) -- the unremarked-upon thing that impresses me here is that they made the move precisely one day after he's had an excellent pitching performance. I doubt that it was entirely coincidental. This was perfect timing, as it underscores in the most credible way possible all the positive feedback that I'm sure they gave him when they had "the talk." ("You did great, kid. Our expectations were high. Yet you exceeded them. Here are the next things we want you to work on.")

Excellent point.

[bluedog]

We have younger guys who can do this that are out of options and they have a chance to be a piece long term...Eaton doesn't.

It really is as simple as that.

If Eaton wins a spot over those young guys, then you'll have a point and almost everyone on OH will agree with it. Until then your just rabble rousing.

[tvz1997]

Agree or disagree with this move (and I trust the braintrust's judgment as to what the optimal developmental step is for BB at this point, as I have no basis to know) -- the unremarked-upon thing that impresses me here is that they made the move precisely one day after he's had an excellent pitching performance. I doubt that it was entirely coincidental. This was perfect timing, as it underscores in the most credible way possible all the positive feedback that I'm sure they gave him when they had "the talk." ("You did great, kid. Our expectations were high. Yet you exceeded them. Here are the next things we want you to work on.")

Bingo. I've been in the Bergeson camp all along, but I thought the timing of the demotion (if it had to come) was great. It sounds from some of what I have read that the Os sent him down so he get work in and be ready for an early callup. I'll withhold my disbelief until Eaton performs like the villain he is made out to be, Bergeson pitches lights out for two more months, and he still hasn't been called up.

[JTrea81]

Anybody who doesn't think MacPhail is obsessed with pitching should really look at this move.

We are so desperate to keep guys like Eaton and Pauley that we are willing to send somebody who outpitched them down to AAA just because he has options and they don't.

Brad Bergesen should have made this rotation last August let alone to start the season, but once again the Orioles waste another option to send the guy down for no reason other than to keep dreck on the team so we can keep an "inventory."

This sent a great message to the young guys: you can be the second coming of Jim Palmer but if you don't have major league experience, you don't deserve to make this roster. This team would rather put Adam Eaton in the rotation than to put a guy who has earned his spot.

I hope MacPhail's master plan is to tank the season for a high draft pick in 2010 because it sure looks like that's what he wants to do. Nobody should go see this team in April because MacPhail obviously doesn't give a rat's butt what kind of product he puts on the field.

[Fan4Life]

I hope MacPhail's master plan is to tank the season for a high draft pick in 2010 because it sure looks like that's what he wants to do. Nobody should go see this team in April because MacPhail obviously doesn't give a rat's butt what kind of product he puts on the field.

If you just now figured this out, you haven't been paying attention. Way back when, when they passed on Burnett, that was the sign that 2009 would be a dress rehearsal for 2010. I'm really not sure how they thought Tex would have taken that process had we landed him. I can't think any baseball player likes opening day knowing they don't even have a shot. Hopefully we'll see all the guys we're clamering for mid-way through this season. We'll still be a last place team, but it'll be fun to watch our future.

[Sports Guy]

If Eaton wins a spot over those young guys, then you'll have a point and almost everyone on OH will agree with it. Until then your just rabble rousing.

The idea that you would judge Eaton on what he does in ST is a joke.

He has shown as of late that has neither the talent nor the durability to be a real viable option on an AL East team...particularly one that is rebuilding and needs to see as many young arms as possible this year.

[Anonymous]

Agree or disagree with this move (and I trust the braintrust's judgment as to what the optimal developmental step is for BB at this point, as I have no basis to know) -- the unremarked-upon thing that impresses me here is that they made the move precisely one day after he's had an excellent pitching performance. I doubt that it was entirely coincidental. This was perfect timing, as it underscores in the most credible way possible all the positive feedback that I'm sure they gave him when they had "the talk." ("You did great, kid. Our expectations were high. Yet you exceeded them. Here are the next things we want you to work on.")

Excellent point.

At the considerable risk of getting smacked for suck-up ... funny you should say that, bluedog -- as I had been debating which of your points to highlight for precisely that remark.

I liked this one a lot.

I'm quite relieved by this move. It means the O's are staying on target philosophically. If as AM and Kranitz have said, young pitchers will need to establish themselves at each level before making the move to the bigs, then they should not make an exception for Bergesen no matter how good he looked this spring.

I think I like Bergesen's chances to become a solid part of our ML rotation for a long time to come as much or more than most people, but sending him to AAA to start the season just makes too much sense. He has options. This will preserve an extra year of team control down the road. It sends the correct message to other pitchers on what to expect as they progress through the minors. It reinforces that the current O's front office is building for the future and will do it the right way, instead of making knee jerk decisions for the short term that might prove to have negative long term repercussions.

Bergesen will be up with the O's very soon I think. Almost nothing to be gained from having him on the roster to start the season and quite a bit to be lost.

But not nearly as much as this one.

So AM should ignore what he's been telling people about making players perform at AAA before they jump to the Majors, ignore the benefits of an extra year of control at the end of a players contract, ignore the face that he's got players he wants to keep who are out of options and ignore the fact that even if Bergesen starts with the O's and pitches like Sandy Koufax, it won't help the O's get any closer to competing this season and just throw all those reasons out the window to get a few fans more excited?

Yeah that's a recipe for a well run organization...

And then you out-did yourself. You may say it’s been stated > 1000 times. But as they say in radio-land, you bring it strong to the mike. It hasn’t been stated quite like this 1000 times, that’s for damn sure.

I think its obvious why and its been stated about 1000 times on this board by dozens of different posters. But I'll reiterate one more time.

1. There are players on the O's roster who are out of options including Penn, Pauley and Bass. Because the O's won't be able to carry all of the pitchers they currently have vying for a spot, keeping any pitcher who has options (Bergesen, Liz, etc) will force the O's to expose one or more pitchers they'd like to hang onto (Penn, Bass) to waivers. Whether we think that Penn or Bass has a future with this club or not doesn't change the fact that AM and Kranitz don't want to simply dump players who might have value unless they absolutely have to. Given that everyone in the known universe understands that this is a rebuilding year for the O's makes it abundantly clear that this is the time to give players like Bass and Penn a chance to stick at the major league level - possibly their last chance to do so with the O's. Kranitz is a good enough coach and has resurrected enough careers that he might just be able to help Penn recapture the ability that led him to become a top O's prospect just a few years ago. The O's have been notorious in the past decade about giving up on young pitchers too early, throwing them on the garbage heap and moving on to the next guy - case and point is John Maine. AM clearly wants to make sure that he doesn't lose someone like Penn to waivers only to see him become John Maine part II with another team.

2. In order for the O's to compete over the long term with the Red Sox and Yankees, they must take advantage of every trick in the book to conserve salary and maximize the value of the players under their control. Delaying the debut of players like Wieters, Bergesen and Reimold until June gives the O's a full year of additional control over these players. We're talking tens of millions of dollars of savings for the O's down the road. In Wieters case it might mean 20+ million dollars in savings, but even for someone like Bergy, if he's a capable #4 or #5 starter he could command 10M a year at that point in his career. It also increases all of these player's trade value - if in a year or two we have to many arms in the rotation / outfield and we need to move Bergy or Reimold, the extra year of team control boosts their value considerably to potential trade partners.

3. AM has be working his a** off since he got here to change the culture of this organization and turn it into a winner. So far, he's been extremely true to his word. He said he'd rebuild around pitching and defense and he has. He said he'd give young players a shot and look to stockpile talent in the minors and he has. He's indicated he won't rush young players to the majors and he's avoided doing so even though he's arguably got the most highly touted catching prospect in the history of the organization in Wieters. A man is only as good as his word and thus far, AM has proven to the players and fans alike that what he says is what he means. AM and Kranitz have repeatedly said they want pitchers to work their way up through A / AA / AAA and have success at each level before they are promoted. To go and jump Bergesen to the bigs without going through AAA first would undermine AM's credibility with the players. When dealing with young players, organizations need to be behave in a consistent, logical and honest manner and that's what McPhail is doing here.

4. The O's have jumped a lot of players straight to the bigs from AA in the last decade. In almost every case, these players have failed (Markakis being the notable exception). In particular, pitchers who've been moved to the bigs without having considerable success at AAA have gotten shelled and most have taken hits to their confidence and ended up struggling mightily on their return to the minors. Given that we're not expected to contend this year, why even risk having the same thing happen to Bergesen? It's not worth the risk and AM clearly understands this.

And then, after the entrée, dessert is served. How else may one respond to the lazy posts insisting that anyone who doesn’t share the particularly strange perspective of the poster must, on that basis, be blind and lazy?

What part of anything that AM has done since he's gotten here has been blind or lazy?

What exactly does AM have to do in order to earn some goodwill with you?

More good stuff from you beyond that. But as I said, no sense in sucking up.

[JTrea81]

If you just now figured this out, you haven't been paying attention. Way back when, when they passed on Burnett, that was the sign that 2009 would be a dress rehearsal for 2010. I'm really not sure how they thought Tex would have taken that process had we landed him. I can't think any baseball player likes opening day knowing they don't even have a shot. Hopefully we'll see all the guys we're clamering for mid-way through this season. We'll still be a last place team, but it'll be fun to watch our future.

The sad part is we could have had it both ways. We don't have to be terrible on the field in the majors to rebuild...

There is more than one way to rebuild this team. Why make fans and the players like Roberts and Markakis suffer even more? At least make it so the team has a chance every night. Bergesen would have been a glimpse of some hope in the pitching staff. He earned his spot but he also was more of a guy that didn't get all the attention. He wasn't one of the Big Three yet he showed that he was more ready than those guys. And then the team decided to pull the rug from underneath him and the fans.

This rotation is going to get destroyed in April. I think we've got a shot at the 1988 Orioles ineptitiude...

[blakesta]

Very entertaining thread. Thanks for the laughs. :laughlol:

Much fun, Much fun indeed!!:rofl::clap3:

[osfan83]

I keep hearing 2009 doen't matter. I keep hearing how important service time is. If these are both true, why on earth bring Wieters up this year? Wait until late April 2010...an extra year of control, and this year doesn't matter anyway.

[Crazysilver03]

Anybody who doesn't think MacPhail is obsessed with pitching should really look at this move.

We are so desperate to keep guys like Eaton and Pauley that we are willing to send somebody who outpitched them down to AAA just because he has options and they don't.

Brad Bergesen should have made this rotation last August let alone to start the season, but once again the Orioles waste another option to send the guy down for no reason other than to keep dreck on the team so we can keep an "inventory."

This sent a great message to the young guys: you can be the second coming of Jim Palmer but if you don't have major league experience, you don't deserve to make this roster. This team would rather put Adam Eaton in the rotation than to put a guy who has earned his spot.

I hope MacPhail's master plan is to tank the season for a high draft pick in 2010 because it sure looks like that's what he wants to do. Nobody should go see this team in April because MacPhail obviously doesn't give a rat's butt what kind of product he puts on the field.

You were being rationale for a while, then you had to go wit the "message for the young guys."

That is clearly not the message.

1) Penn, Simon, and Pauley have, for all intensive purposes, no major league experience but they are still being considered.

2) The younger guys know they haven't been to AAA and the Orioles want them to get a little more grooming before coming up for good. MacPhail doesn't want to play the back/forth game.