Surprise! Eaton getting rocked

[NewMarketSean]

C'mon even you know that Randy Wolf and Braden Looper would perform much better than Adam Eaton.

And the whole point of getting better starters is so that Trembley doesn't use up the pen like he did last year. By the time the young guys come up, there won't be a bullpen to support them because they'll all be injured or ineffective...

Looper didn't want to come to BAL because even he knew his ERA would jump over 5.00 if he pitched in the AL East. Plus he wanted 2-3 years which is too much if we're going to the prospects in 1.5 years.

Wolf would have been your basic 4.50-5.00 ERA SP. Probably better than Eaton but not worth the money/years.

[Sports Guy]

Even if the guy he displaces turns out to be Baez?

It would be better but neither have any business being here.

[wildcard]

I will be surprised if Eaton and Simon are still in the rotation by mid May.

[df1570]

I've asked you several times in the thread to give me the Drew plan for getting real pitchers in here without clogging up the staff in future years with average to below average starters. You have not replied to me once. I take this to mean you just like to scream and shout about how badly the Orioles are doing without actually putting something out there to improve the situation?

I had an obligation tonight. I wasn't dodging you or your question. Occasionally real-life calls and these journeys into make believe GM-ville have to be put on hold so we can all put food on our family's table. Try remembering that the next time you bark at someone for not replying to you at the snap of your fingers.

My answer is simple: I would have brought in better pitchers.

I don't know why Andy didn't pursue Jon Garland. I'm not allowed to ask MacPhail any questions or that one I would ask him. Garland got $6.25 mm guaranteed in Arizona. Would $15mm for 2 years had done the trick for him? I don't know. I do know this: he's better than any of the cheap band-aids we signed, even if his ERA and WHIP are too high for a 3-4 year $40 million dollar deal like he was seeking.

When I saw MacPhail at a press conference and asked him why he didn't try and sign Derek Lowe, he muttered something about "being outside of our age demographic" then shuffled all to the soda table so I couldn't question him about anything else. I assume he forgot about Mark Hendrickson being two years older than Lowe.

Everyone keeps saying, "we can't sign any pitchers because we have these young kids in the wings..." -- are they all going to come up and be rock stars at the same time?

There's no room for decent pitchers on a team that has none?

That seems odd to me.

We have one semi-quality, proven pitcher right now (Guthrie) and he has 17 career wins. Guthrie gets the ball one day. Who gets it the next four days?

It's a crap-shoot.

Fortunately, it's not my job to go out and find new players. That's Andy MacPhail's job.

My job is to critique him. A lot of you fail to bring up the fact that I routinely praise Andy MacPhail. If you did that, it wouldn't serve your agenda very well. That said, I think MacPhail's done a nice job with everything except the off-season pitching staff needs, giving Pie the job in left field without as much as one day of competition (and taking Scott's job away from him despite the fact he was decent last year) and cutting Guthrie's salary by $120k when it wasn't necessary. The Wieters thing is dumb, too, but this is a club that always thinks "money first" and "fans second", so I can see where they'd wait to bring him up until July.

I like the job being done by Andy MacPhail. I just can't buy into this concept being preached at the orange alter that says we're going to lose this year and it's OK because we told you up front we were going to lose.

I just can't buy it. Losers think like that.

I suspect the fans won't buy it either. We'll have to wait until September to see that play out in full over the 81-game home schedule.

[Sports Guy]

I don't know why Andy didn't pursue Jon Garland. I'm not allowed to ask MacPhail any questions or that one I would ask him. Garland got $6.25 mm guaranteed in Arizona. Would $15mm for 2 years had done the trick for him? I don't know. I do know this: he's better than any of the cheap band-aids we signed, even if his ERA and WHIP are too high for a 3-4 year $40 million dollar deal like he was seeking.

Garland was pursued by AM...AM just wasn't willing to give him the deal he needed to give him to bring him to Baltimore.

When I saw MacPhail at a press conference and asked him why he didn't try and sign Derek Lowe, he muttered something about "being outside of our age demographic" then shuffled all to the soda table so I couldn't question him about anything else. I assume he forgot about Mark Hendrickson being two years older than Lowe.

Age was important for Lowe because of the length of his contract...For where we are right now, we have no business giving a 36 y/o starter a 4 year deal...Long term deals for pitchers aren't usually the best of ideas to begin with and giving them one at that age is even worse...Now, I do like Lowe and for 2-3 years, I would have been happy with his signing but again, what does it take for him to come here, as opposed to a contender? The answer is a lot more than he got from the Braves.

I like the job being done by Andy MacPhail. I just can't buy into this concept being preached at the orange alter that says we're going to lose this year and it's OK because we told you up front we were going to lose.

I think it is good that he is being honest...Unlike the previous regimes where they would try to blow sunshine up our butts and say that if everyone has a career year and the other teams in the division have injuries, that maybe we could compete.

AM is letting the fans know of their plan and intentions.

[SilentJames]

SG pretty much summed it up. The money and years that it would have required to bring Lowe and Garland here would not have been worth it when you consider that at least one of these "mystery three" spots could be filled by one of our young guys as early as June.

After next year you would be paying Garland and Lowe to block Arrieta, Tillman and/or Matusz.

Also, NMS was right - I was being a bit of a hypocrite earlier and I'm sorry. I was in a bad mood and I took it out in a bad spot.

[turtlebowl]

I had an obligation tonight. I wasn't dodging you or your question. Occasionally real-life calls and these journeys into make believe GM-ville have to be put on hold so we can all put food on our family's table. Try remembering that the next time you bark at someone for not replying to you at the snap of your fingers.

My answer is simple: I would have brought in better pitchers.

I don't know why Andy didn't pursue Jon Garland. I'm not allowed to ask MacPhail any questions or that one I would ask him. Garland got $6.25 mm guaranteed in Arizona. Would $15mm for 2 years had done the trick for him? I don't know. I do know this: he's better than any of the cheap band-aids we signed, even if his ERA and WHIP are too high for a 3-4 year $40 million dollar deal like he was seeking.

When I saw MacPhail at a press conference and asked him why he didn't try and sign Derek Lowe, he muttered something about "being outside of our age demographic" then shuffled all to the soda table so I couldn't question him about anything else. I assume he forgot about Mark Hendrickson being two years older than Lowe.

Everyone keeps saying, "we can't sign any pitchers because we have these young kids in the wings..." -- are they all going to come up and be rock stars at the same time?

There's no room for decent pitchers on a team that has none?

That seems odd to me.

We have one semi-quality, proven pitcher right now (Guthrie) and he has 17 career wins. Guthrie gets the ball one day. Who gets it the next four days?

It's a crap-shoot.

Fortunately, it's not my job to go out and find new players. That's Andy MacPhail's job.

My job is to critique him. A lot of you fail to bring up the fact that I routinely praise Andy MacPhail. If you did that, it wouldn't serve your agenda very well. That said, I think MacPhail's done a nice job with everything except the off-season pitching staff needs, giving Pie the job in left field without as much as one day of competition (and taking Scott's job away from him despite the fact he was decent last year) and cutting Guthrie's salary by $120k when it wasn't necessary. The Wieters thing is dumb, too, but this is a club that always thinks "money first" and "fans second", so I can see where they'd wait to bring him up until July.

I like the job being done by Andy MacPhail. I just can't buy into this concept being preached at the orange alter that says we're going to lose this year and it's OK because we told you up front we were going to lose.

I just can't buy it. Losers think like that.

I suspect the fans won't buy it either. We'll have to wait until September to see that play out in full over the 81-game home schedule.

The only part I'm not really agreeing with is the Weiters thing. I believe the O's need to keep him down for a couple of weeks just because it guarentees he's an Oriole for one more year. Now if they keep him in the minors for half the season to save an arbitration year then I'll be very upset.

The Pie trade was a waste of a possible good trading chip down the road. Of all the needs this team potentially has in the future, left fielder would not had been a thought. Now we have Luke Scott being squeezed out of playing time and 2 organizational guys being sent back to the minors. This to me shows everyone that earning a spot on the team isn't possible, McPhail will decide who plays. Also, do we really think McPhail would have this huge man crush on Pie if he wasn't an ex Cub.

Lastly how can anyone running a team write off a season. What happens if 2 of our big 3 pitching prospects have to have Tommy John surgery by the end of the year. I bet at that point that John Garland contract would look like a steal to the O's. I really hope these guys pan out but how can you plan your next 5 years around that. If I remember right the Mets a few years ago had the same scenerio with the 3 pitching prospects, how did that work out?

The organization should be obligated with putting the best product it can on the field. I am not convinced that saving money still isn't their #1 priority.

[The Rick]

No one bought the $1 tickets last September, either. A friend of mine at TicketMaster said there was a game against Tampa Bay late in the year where a mere 86 people bought $1 tickets. More people were bowling at Perry Hall Lanes that night.

It's not about lowering ticket prices...it's about making the effort to show the fans you're trying to reward them for the price of the ticket they're paying for...

$1 tickets=$1 team. No one wants to see that garbage.

If they're going to charge $45 a ticket, or $25 a ticket, put a product out there that's representative of that expenditure.

If not, you're cheating everyone.

They're not "cheating" anyone. For those who want to watch their "favorite" team play a baseball game, they do so because they love their O's and they love the game of baseball.

The idea that you aren't going to pay any money to the Orioles because they're "trying to lose" is pretty far out there, IMO.

I go to the yard because I love baseball, I love the crack of the bat and the sound of a fastball hitting a catchers mit, as well as the roar of the crowd after a home run (even if it's 10,000 people).

So if for you the only way to justify buying an Orioles ticket is if the team is a good one, then more power to you. I'm just fine not being a fair weather fan, and whenever the Orioles efforts these past couple of years result in the Orioles return to respectability i'll enjoy it even more because I know that it will never be guaranteed ever again.

And so what, to me it's a game.

[df1570]

SG pretty much summed it up. The money and years that it would have required to bring Lowe and Garland here would not have been worth it when you consider that at least one of these "mystery three" spots could be filled by one of our young guys as early as June.

After next year you would be paying Garland and Lowe to block Arrieta, Tillman and/or Matusz.

Also, NMS was right - I was being a bit of a hypocrite earlier and I'm sorry. I was in a bad mood and I took it out in a bad spot.

"After next year"...

What, then, do the fans do in 2009 and 2010?

Are they still supposed to buy tickets to the games? We can't go out and sign decent pitchers NOW because they'll block folks in 2010. So, what should the fans do in the meantime?

This, again, is a question I'd ask MacPhail if I weren't blacklisted and not allowed to talk with him.

I think that's a very fair question. No one else in town will ask it, obviously, mainly because most everyone else is loosely attached to the club or their TV network.

It's a fair question: What do the fans do for the next two years while we're waiting for this great tsunami of young pitching success to come crashing into Baltimore?

[The Rick]

"After next year"...

What, then, do the fans do in 2009 and 2010?

Are they still supposed to buy tickets to the games? We can't go out and sign decent pitchers NOW because they'll block folks in 2010. So, what should the fans do in the meantime?

This, again, is a question I'd ask MacPhail if I weren't blacklisted and not allowed to talk with him.

I think that's a very fair question. No one else in town will ask it, obviously, mainly because most everyone else is loosely attached to the club or their TV network.

It's a fair question: What do the fans do for the next two years while we're waiting for this great tsunami of young pitching success to come crashing into Baltimore?

Well, we sign 3 or 4 pitchers to 3-5 year contracts, and when the kids arrive next year or the year after that you cut the pitchers you signed just to make fans happy in the mean time and eat their remaining salary.

At least it would keep fans happy and prove to the fans that the O's are "trying to win", even though they wouldn't actually be winning... rather just paying several more million in wasted payroll.

[Frobby]

"After next year"...

What, then, do the fans do in 2009 and 2010?

Are they still supposed to buy tickets to the games? We can't go out and sign decent pitchers NOW because they'll block folks in 2010. So, what should the fans do in the meantime?

This, again, is a question I'd ask MacPhail if I weren't blacklisted and not allowed to talk with him.

I think that's a very fair question. No one else in town will ask it, obviously, mainly because most everyone else is loosely attached to the club or their TV network.

It's a fair question: What do the fans do for the next two years while we're waiting for this great tsunami of young pitching success to come crashing into Baltimore?

So don't buy a ticket if you don't want to go.

Personally, I think the pitching will be getting better by the end of 2009 as some of these guys will be reaching the majors then. We may not be fully loaded until 2011 but the latter part of this year and all of next year will be a continuously improving situation IMO.

[Sports Guy]

"After next year"...

What, then, do the fans do in 2009 and 2010?

Are they still supposed to buy tickets to the games? We can't go out and sign decent pitchers NOW because they'll block folks in 2010. So, what should the fans do in the meantime?

This, again, is a question I'd ask MacPhail if I weren't blacklisted and not allowed to talk with him.

I think that's a very fair question. No one else in town will ask it, obviously, mainly because most everyone else is loosely attached to the club or their TV network.

It's a fair question: What do the fans do for the next two years while we're waiting for this great tsunami of young pitching success to come crashing into Baltimore?

Do you think you are a spokesperson for the fans?

The fans can do what they want...Why do you have this need to feel that you are speaking for the fans? That you are some voice of the fans? A microphone for them? You don't speak for everyone, despite what you think.

Look, you have your issues with the team..We get it...No one on here knows more than I do how unprofessional that organization can be.

But no one else cares either.

So, talk about the real issue...and that is what is going on between the lines.

I am looking more forward to this team than any team since the 1998 season...Tons of young talent all around and it should really starting coming to fruition by the end of the year.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Mark Hendrickson is a year younger than Derek Lowe.

[Fairfax Bird]

"After next year"...

What, then, do the fans do in 2009 and 2010?

Are they still supposed to buy tickets to the games? We can't go out and sign decent pitchers NOW because they'll block folks in 2010. So, what should the fans do in the meantime?

This, again, is a question I'd ask MacPhail if I weren't blacklisted and not allowed to talk with him.

I think that's a very fair question. No one else in town will ask it, obviously, mainly because most everyone else is loosely attached to the club or their TV network.

It's a fair question: What do the fans do for the next two years while we're waiting for this great tsunami of young pitching success to come crashing into Baltimore?

Go and enjoy Marakis, Jones, Scott, Pie, Roberts, and in a few months Wieters. Go and enjoy all of the very long home runs that are going to be hit off of Adam Eaton.

[SilentJames]

"After next year"...

What, then, do the fans do in 2009 and 2010?

Are they still supposed to buy tickets to the games? We can't go out and sign decent pitchers NOW because they'll block folks in 2010. So, what should the fans do in the meantime?

This, again, is a question I'd ask MacPhail if I weren't blacklisted and not allowed to talk with him.

I think that's a very fair question. No one else in town will ask it, obviously, mainly because most everyone else is loosely attached to the club or their TV network.

It's a fair question: What do the fans do for the next two years while we're waiting for this great tsunami of young pitching success to come crashing into Baltimore?

What you are not getting is that some of these guys could be here as soon as June of THIS year.

Right now you have Guthrie and Uehara. Hill whould be the number three guy and if you have been following the reports you would know that he is progressing nicely and feels fine. Kranitz even said that he thinks he is ready to go. They want to stretch him out and get him a start or two before throwing him to the lions.

The Orioles only really need four pitchers through the first two weeks of April because of the way the schedule breaks down, so Hill could be the "5th man" and "miss" two starts before he joins the team in the middle of April.

That leaves us with the final two. I wanted Bergy and Penn but right now it looks like a competition between five-six guys for the final two spots. Odds are it will be Penn and Hendrickson.

The logic behind Bergy is simple really. Stretch him out against near MLB stuff. Why throw the kid who has not pitched above AA to the wolves if you can give him an easier schedule and get him some more innings under his belt. Bergy could, and I am willing to bet, WILL be up here in by the end of May.

So there. The rotation by May/ June could be completely differnt from the April rotation.

If we followed your plan we would be stuck with two guys making much more money than they deserved to make blocking any young talent that might present itself in the second half.

Arrieta/ Tillman could be fighting for a spot in June/July. The Orioles have flexibility while you want to shackle them to long-term deals for declining veterans.

Look at Jon Garland over the last three years

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garlajo01.shtml

and tell me you want to give him a three to four year deal worth tens of millions of dollars and you want that blocking some of our young talent.

Now here is Derek Lowe

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lowede01.shtml

Looks fine, but then you realize he did that in the NL West. He did it playing in pitcher friendly parks in LA and San Diego in the weakest division in baseball.

Not to mention that the contracts we will have to give them will take them well into 34 and 39 respectively.

That is not the work of a rebuilding team.