Trading for Tarik Skubal

[sportsfan8703]

Should we call up Mayo to replace Cowser?  

If the answer is Yes, Cowser is a spare part. So is Holliday. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Man step back. I literally just complimented you. 

Holliday is a spare part behind Gunnar SS, Westburg 2B, and Mayo 3B. 

Are you afraid the Tigers GM will catch on?  Haha. 

Cowser is a spare part too brother. Kjerstad has passed him over. Cowser really should be down in AAA right now for Mayo. 

You are completely wrong. Just stop.

[theobird]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Ring?

Yea, kinda.  That's the goal right?  Or is the actual goal to build a farm system?

The goal is, and should be sustained success and years of championship opportunities. Period.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Skubal is more valuable than Crochet and will cost more in trade. I think the difference is Skubal will require one of Holliday/Mayo/Basallo and the Orioles will have the top offer for Crochet with a package headlined by Kjerstad.

For the sake of simplicity, assume the pieces behind the headliner are the same for both. Which is better for the Orioles?

1. Skubal for Mayo, Povich, Norby, Beavers

2. Crochet for Kjerstad, Povich, Norby, Beavers

I still pass on both and prefer the rental/1.5 SP route and spend some money on FA SP this offseason, but I think the difference between Mayo (or Holliday or Basallo) and Kjerstad may be bigger than the difference between Skubal and Crochet, and prefer #2 over #1. 

[interloper]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Should we call up Mayo to replace Cowser?  

If the answer is Yes, Cowser is a spare part. So is Holliday. 

What I'm struck by is how much #22 Honeycutt is kind of a similar talent to #5 Cowser. Both good defensive CF with good speed and good power, and bad hit tools and whiff problems. I don't have any problem trading Cowser whatsoever. Not saying he won't be a good player, just that we can afford to lose him. 

Edited July 18 by interloper

[theobird]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Skubal is more valuable than Crochet and will cost more in trade. I think the difference is Skubal will require one of Holliday/Mayo/Basallo and the Orioles will have the top offer for Crochet with a package headlined by Kjerstad.

For the sake of simplicity, assume the pieces behind the headliner are the same for both. Which is better for the Orioles?

1. Skubal for Mayo, Povich, Norby, Beavers

2. Crochet for Kjerstad, Povich, Norby, Beavers

I still pass on both and prefer the rental/1.5 SP route and spend some money on FA SP this offseason, but I think the difference between Mayo (or Holliday or Basallo) and Kjerstad may be bigger than the difference between Skubal and Crochet, and prefer #2 over #1. 

I would do number 2 if you substitute Cowser for Kjerstad. 

[Bemorewins]

29 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What are the Tigers Organizational needs the next 1-3+ years?

SP - They need this back if trading Skubal. 

SS - Baez

3B - Urshela

RF/DH - Perez/Canha

Instead of us just throwing out names. Who actually would they target?

Holliday for SS.  Povich for LHP. Norby for 3B or 2B if Keith can play 2B. Stowers for RF/DH. Maybe they want more pitching in return. DeLeon?

I don’t think they would want EBJ. They have Vierling and Parker Meadows for CF.

DER has pitching talent in droves. And have a good number of prospects in their top ten who are pitchers (though some are struggling at AAA).

They have a top flight pitching prospect (borderline top 10 in the game) at AAA ready to take Skubal’s rotation spot.
 

Other than Maeda, their Major League rotation is good. Though they will probably trade Flaherty. But again, they have guys in the Minors that they can bring up.

I doubt that Povich/McDermott would have too much appeal to them. They’ve got young guys who are better.

The problem is they can’t hit and only have one young good offensive player on their roster. They have have another young player acclimating in his first season to MLB. And Jung performing very well at AAA. Their best talented position players are at single A.

They definitely need a SS of the future. So Holliday is probably most appealing to them. And probably would carry more valuable for  them being at his natural position as opposed to here where he is 2B with Gunnar in front of him at SS.

[Chromehill]

51 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well it depends on Det but Det isn’t selling Skubal for the best offer they get. They will sell him for a deal they want. Those are 2 different things.

Det isn’t likely to contend in the next year or so but they could. They have very good young talent and if Jobe can come up and be very good immediately that gives them 2 studs in the rotation.

Their division isn’t the AL East, so who knows.

That said, it’s silly for them to keep him imo. They may get one playoff run with him and that is if everything goes well. 

Exactly.  If Detroit does not get the deal they want, they wait until the off-season or the deadline next year.  Who knows, they could try to extend him too.  

Edited July 18 by Chromehill
spelling

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, theobird said:

The goal is, and should be sustained success and years of championship opportunities. Period.

And quality pitching is part of that.

 

Period.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Chromehill said:

Exactly.  If Detroit does get the deal they want, they wait until the off-season or the deadline next year.  Who knows, they could try to extend him too.  

They could but I doubt it. He’s close to free agency and has Boras as his agent.  But if he love Detroit, they offer enough and perhaps if he’s worried about his elbow, maybe he signs one. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

At the end of the day, until I know for a FACT that Rubenstein will spend and spend generously, I'm not giving up the titanic haul of cheap future assets it would require to land Skubal (or Crochet). 

[Bemorewins]

34 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If they want Holliday, Mayo/Basallo, Cowser/Kjerstad, and Povich/McDermott 

could we counter with

Holliday, Cowser, Beavers, Povich, and one of Baumeister, Johnson, or DeLeon. 

We use the 5th player to buy them down to offset the difference of not getting one of Mayo/Basallo as the 2nd piece. 

Why we do it?  We have Skubal, and theoretically don’t have to make a trade for a big time SP this offseason. We still have 

Mayo, Basallo, EBJ. Stowers and Norby have more value to us then they would bring in a trade. 

Mayo comes up for Cowser ASAP post trade. 

I struggle with the notion of them having realistic discussion to include Holliday plus Mayo or Basallo.

That kind of haul for a pitcher would be unprecedented within the last 10+ years of MLB (in an era when prospects are more valued than ever).

Like what makes Tarik Skubal (with his resume) worth an unprecedented haul? And I missing something?

[terpoh]

36 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Would we do Holliday, Cowser, Beavers, McDermott, and Johnson for Skubal?

I say yes. Trying to keep the LH SP prospects since we have the WALL.

They could swap Norby in for Beavers if they wanted. They get three immediate starters in position players if they go with Norby. Along with two pitching prospects.

This is an overpay based on every trade made over the past 20 years, even for guys far more accomplished than Skubal. This is a better package than what the Red Sox traded for Chris Sale and Chris Sale was a 5 time all star and 5 time finisher in the top 5 of Cy young going into that trade. Skubal has a ton of potential, but he is not prime Chris Sale yet. Skubal has a ton of injury risk, has never pitched more than 150 innings in a single season, and has never finished in the top 10 of Cy young voting.

Jackson Holliday is the #1 or #2 prospect in baseball based on publication. In no world is that a spare part.

Edited July 18 by terpoh

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

At the end of the day, until I know for a FACT that Rubenstein will spend and spend generously, I'm not giving up the titanic haul of cheap future assets it would require to land Skubal (or Crochet). 

If that is the case you just keep Burnes and the need for the others is lessened.

[Keygans]

1 minute ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

At the end of the day, until I know for a FACT that Rubenstein will spend and spend generously, I'm not giving up the titanic haul of cheap future assets it would require to land Skubal (or Crochet). 

As i mentioned months ago, I have heard almost directly from the horse's mouth that he will spend to win.    We won't ever have a top 5 payroll or anything, but we will no longer be a bottom 5 team. . .