Fire Tony Mansilino

[SilverRocket]

I think it was right to tag once Greene started to slide. Holliday can't tag sooner because then Greene could field on a bounce and throw him out. But once there's a slide then he should try to score if it's caught. It wasn't done perfectly but the timing had to be just right so it wasn't as obvious as I initially thought.

Sending Adley was imo the bad move here. Holding Holliday on the double is fine with no outs, you have to be like 80% to send and it was probably closer to 50-50.

[Baseball fandom]

1 hour ago, Spy Fox said:

I wanted him to send Holliday on Gunnar’s double— I think he scores there and if he doesn’t, you likely have Gunnar at 3b.

The Holliday tag up play was unfortunate but I get why that happened— it only works to tag and score there because of the collision, which you wouldn’t be anticipating. 

The Adley send earlier in the game was awful and inexplicable. 

Well of course us Orioles fans want to take that chance because well they are probably the worst team in baseball getting rubbers home from 3rd so you can't blame them for saying send him. 

[Yossarian]

This game is not on Mansolito at all (unless you want to pin some blame on him for not working more with Holliday to make him a better fielder).

On the Henderson double.   Why risk a send with nobody out, you have already tied the game,  your 2-3-4 batters are due up,  and you have good speed at third?  There is no way you risk a send there. 

In the Santander pop up?  That was 15 feet behind the infield grass.  You could tell the LF wasn't going to get there.   The SS and 3B are running with their backs to the infield.   No way do you tag up on that.   I thought Holliday should have been even farther down the line expecting a drop.  

This game was last due to poor fielding,  poor relief pitching,  and the inability to hit a fly ball to the outfield in the ninth by the top half of the order.  It was not lost because of Mansolito.

 

 

[LA2]

So glad Mayo is gone. Rivera got two hits plus a sac fly RBI and Eloy's pinchhit ground out was very hard hit. (Welcome back to Mayo in 2025 of course!)

Now it's time to bench Holliday. Soto probably makes that 10th-inning DP and, albeit based on only 86 plate appearances, has a career OBP of .400, which is 76% better than JH's .227. (OPS+'s? 87 vs. 51.) Are we trying to win or not?

[Yossarian]

Just now, LA2 said:

So glad Mayo is gone. Rivera got two hits plus a sac fly RBI and Eloy's pinchhit ground out was very hard hit. (Welcome back to Mayo in 2025 of course!)

Now it's time to bench Holliday. Soto probably makes that 10th-inning DP and, albeit based on only 86 plate appearances, has a career OBP of .400, which is 76% better than JH's .227. (OPS+'s? 87 vs. 51.) Are we trying to win or not?

I agree on getting Holliday out of this lineup.   Westberg and Urias can't get here soon enough.  He, like Mayo, is obviously not ready for this level of baseball. 

[oriolediehard]

The O's 2024 playoffs may be like the 2014 and 1997 teams where we choked again and again. The final 1997 game we had bases loaded almost every inning and lost 1-0, and the 2014 team couldn't buy a run, we losing 2-1 I think a couple of games and lost 4 straight.

[rm5678]

1 hour ago, Tbone83 said:

 

I agree that Jackson's horrible miss on that DP ball was the worst play of the game. 

Jim Palmer seemed to think that the umpire was blocking Holliday's view of that ground ball. So there was probably some bad luck with that play, and maybe not 100% Holliday's fault.

[Billy F-Face3]

This is an emotional reaction and a terrible one at that. Mansilini is not a problem on this team. And the pop fly with Jackson Holliday on 3rd, he should not have been sent home because the Feilder make a heck of a catch and they instantly threw the ball to the 3rd basemen. If Jackson would have tagged, he would have either gotten gotten himself thrown out at the plate, or been caught in a run down.

Tell him to tag up would have been foolish.

[Say O!]

I think reasonable to question why not send Holliday on Gunnar double, forcing DET to make quality throw home on a fast runner and worst case have Gunnar at 3rd with one out.  Then on subsequent play, given Os general philosophy on running on contact when infield grounder with runner on 3rd, why not have Holliday dash to home, again making DET make quality throw with worst case Gunnar again at 3rd base one out.  In retrospect, I am confused at both of these, even if low probability of scoring, seems like should take those chances when only need one run to win the game. 

[SilverRocket]

1 hour ago, Say O! said:

I think reasonable to question why not send Holliday on Gunnar double, forcing DET to make quality throw home on a fast runner and worst case have Gunnar at 3rd with one out.  Then on subsequent play, given Os general philosophy on running on contact when infield grounder with runner on 3rd, why not have Holliday dash to home, again making DET make quality throw with worst case Gunnar again at 3rd base one out.

I agree with the second but not the first. If the first fails, that's an extra out. If the second fails then they just get an out at home instead of an out at first, which is not really relevant with Gunnar going to 3rd. For the first case I'd think you need to be like 80% to succeed for it to be right, but for the second like 20%.

[Uli2001]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

There is a very good chance Holliday gets thrown out there, much higher than the chance of both Mullins and Santander (plus Cowser) coming up empty there. With 2B/3B, 0 out we have >85% chance to score. I don't think Holliday was >85% to score on Gunnar's ball.

The game is already tied. If he gets thrown out, the O's still have a runner in scoring position and just one out. You really didn't have much to lose by sending him there, with a chance to end the game.

[Uli2001]

1 hour ago, Yossarian said:

This game is not on Mansolito at all (unless you want to pin some blame on him for not working more with Holliday to make him a better fielder).

On the Henderson double.   Why risk a send with nobody out, you have already tied the game,  your 2-3-4 batters are due up,  and you have good speed at third?  There is no way you risk a send there. 

In the Santander pop up?  That was 15 feet behind the infield grass.  You could tell the LF wasn't going to get there.   The SS and 3B are running with their backs to the infield.   No way do you tag up on that.   I thought Holliday should have been even farther down the line expecting a drop.  

This game was last due to poor fielding,  poor relief pitching,  and the inability to hit a fly ball to the outfield in the ninth by the top half of the order.  It was not lost because of Mansolito.

 

 

He was too conservative on a team that struggles to get RISP home. It's a notorious fact for this team, and you have to adjust by being more aggressive.

[dystopia]

8 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

The game is already tied. If he gets thrown out, the O's still have a runner in scoring position and just one out. You really didn't have much to lose by sending him there, with a chance to end the game.

Wouldn’t there be two outs?

[baltfan]

Adleysend was horrible.  Jackson not going made sense.  If you look at how the fielder lands when he dives he is in a good position to pop up to throw.  He likely would have thrown Jackson out. 

[glenn__davis]

30 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Adleysend was horrible.  Jackson not going made sense.  If you look at how the fielder lands when he dives he is in a good position to pop up to throw.  He likely would have thrown Jackson out. 

I think if Jackson had tagged he would have pretty easily been safe. After the catch, the guy still had to go down, recover, and either try to make a throw from his backside or quickly hop up and try to make a throw. With his speed I think Jackson beats that. 

All that said I think that was a tough read.  He's clearly trying to get as far off the bag as he can in the event the ball drops to try to score.  He can't anticipate the collision and catch there. Just a tough read to make there.