Lack of talent showing....

[Maverick2143]

I would be surprised if any team has had its starters average 7 innings a start since the 5 man rotation started.

I think league average is around 5 2/3 IP but i am not 100% sure of that.

BTW, i thought LOpez looked great tonight but he was too wild in the strike zone for a few batters. But he had very good stuff tonight and was working the outside corner all night long.

Chen needs to get going and DC needs to get better consistency.

I am not that worried about the pitching staff at this point, as long as Halama and Brower are out the door soon.

Question for the Stat Guys.

Whats the average per start for plus .500 or playoff teams.

[JoeOrsulak]

We are only a half a game behind the BJ's but whatever.

I have said all offseason that the Jays will end up 3-5 wins better than us.

Many of the stat analysis guys on here have said the BJ's are not better than us and are in fact overrated.

The BJ's have a higher ceiling than us but to think we are worse than last year is foolish.

BTW, i could care less about odds and things like that. They mean NOTHING!

It is April!!

Still didn't answer my question how many wins are you projecting for the Orioles.

What source would make you feel better than a line that is based on someone 's livelyhood? Believe most of the sports publications had the BJ ahead of the O's and some even them winning the Wild Card. Don't believe I saw the O's ever mentioned. Would going through the player win totals for Baseball Propectus make you feel better?

[Sports Guy]

It is April!!

Still didn't answer my question how many wins are you projecting for the Orioles.

What source would make you feel better than a line that is based on someone 's livelyhood? Believe most of the sports publications had the BJ ahead of the O's and some even them winning the Wild Card. Don't believe I saw the O's ever mentioned. Would going through the player win totals for Baseball Propectus make you feel better?

I think the Orioles are an 80-85 win team. I think the BJ's are a 85-90 win team.

I, like most publications, also have the BJ's in front of the Orioles.

[JoeOrsulak]

Seriously, those projections were made because of the off-season signings the Jays made, and honestly, neither has really worked out as planned.

Every statistical analysis has shown that the Jays and O's arent that far away competition wise, so unless you can come up with something better than "well the vegas bookie said it, so it must be true", then you have no right to call out anyone.

The line I am looking at now of 50-1 v. 6-1 is current. I understand preseason can fluctuate. Don't believe a corporation that their lively hood on knowing sports more than someone of us is that inaccurate. Would understand some fluctuation ut 50-1 v. 6-1 is great.

Really my only argument is what "potential" .500 teams would bat Jeff Conine or a similar player in the 2 spot, or even be in the lineup?

[JoeOrsulak]

I think the Orioles are an 80-85 win team. I think the BJ's are a 85-90 win team.

I, like most publications, also have the BJ's in front of the Orioles.

How many wins do the Yankees and Sox get based on your numbers? Assume you are placing both teams ahead of the BJ's and O's. Last year the 4 best team won 74 games and that was the O's

Lets say take the average of the projections that you had for the O's 82.5 and Jays 87.5 and the Rays stay the same at 67 (they will win more than that). That leaves 174 wins between the Sox and Yankees, average of 87 wins. Think they win a little more than that.

[Sports Guy]

How many wins do the Yankees and Sox get based on your numbers? Assume you are placing both teams ahead of the BJ's and O's. Last year the 4 best team won 74 games and that was the O's

Lets say take the average of the projections that you had for the O's 82.5 and Jays 87.5 and the Rays stay the same at 67 (they will win more than that). That leaves 174 wins between the Sox and Yankees, average of 87 wins. Think they win a little more than that.

I think the Yanks and Sox are both over 90(95 tops), with the Red Sox ending up a few games ahead.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Wow, how soon we forget that we just took 5-7 from Anaheim and Cleveland, two teams I think we can pretty well agree are better then us.

Yet we lose two of three to the Yankees and the first game to Toronto and suddenly we are way behind Toronto talent-wise.

Can't we all just make peace with the fact that this team will be up-and-down all year, hitting and pitching well some nights and not at all others, and not go completely insane when there is a short streak in either direction?

It's one thing to be excited when we win a couple from good teams, and disappointed when we lose a couple to other teams; it is another to act that we are either going to make the playoffs or suck completely.

Hell, before tonight Brower had a couple good appearences and Halama had a 3.12 ERA. Everyone will be up-and-down.

[Sports Guy]

Wow, how soon we forget that we just took 5-7 from Anaheim and Cleveland, two teams I think we can pretty well agree are better then us.

Yet we lose two of three to the Yankees and the first game to Toronto and suddenly we are way behind Toronto talent-wise.

Can't we all just make peace with the fact that this team will be up-and-down all year, hitting and pitching well some nights and not at all others, and not go completely insane when there is a short streak in either direction?

It's one thing to be excited when we win a couple from good teams, and disappointed when we lose a couple to other teams; it is another to act that we are either going to make the playoffs or suck completely.

Hell, before tonight Brower had a couple good appearences and Halama had a 3.12 ERA. Everyone will be up-and-down.

The people on OH are more up and down than the Orioles.

Halama is toast. He needs ot be gone.

[birdsfan4ever]

The people on OH are more up and down than the Orioles.

Halama is toast. He needs ot be gone.

Brower should go first imo.

Halama has been solid up until tonight, and even tonight was a tough situation to come into.

When Williams comes back Britton is probably gone. Is there anyone else in the minors who could come up and pitch when it counts and be effective, not someone who will come up and pitch when the game is out of reach either way?

[Why Not?]

Is there anyone else in the minors who could come up and pitch when it counts and be effective, not someone who will come up and pitch when the game is out of reach either way?

Somebody MIGHT come up from the minors and pitch well, but it's far from a certainty. No real reason to believe anybody we've got on the farm would be more effective than Halama or Brower.

That goes for just about every team in MLB. Nobody has reliable middle relief, which is why guys like Brower get recycled. Take a look around the majors and just about every team has a bullpen guy or two getting pounded like Brower is right now.

[wildcard]

Ray, Hawkins, Rleal and Williams should push Halama and Brower to mop up duty. ERod has pitched well so far in non pressure situations. He may be ready of more important assignments.

I'd like to see Halama and Brower gone, but that is probably too much to ask for.

[larrytt]

Hell, before tonight Brower had a couple good appearences and Halama had a 3.12 ERA. Everyone will be up-and-down.

After many poor performances, Brower did have two good appearances recently (pitching 2 innings, giving up one hit, no walks or runs). However, in his previous outing before tonight he pitched 0.2 innings, giving up two hits, a walk, and two earned runs. Tonight, of course, he pitched 0.1 innings, and gave up one hit, two walks, and three earned runs.

For the year, he's had ten outings, and did poorly in seven of them. In the three "good" ones, in one he pitched to only one batter (got the out); in another, he pitched an inning, giving up a hit but no runs. I think his 11.45 ERA in 11 innings (17 hits, 11 walks, 14 earned runs) says he should not be used in close games in the forseeable future. (One thing going for him - he hasn't given up a HR yet, just lots and lots and lots of hits and walks.)

EDIT - Brower's also hit three batters (Bedard has one, no one else has any yet), but I'm not sure which of the above outings they took place in since it's not listed in the game by game listing I'm looking at.

-Larrytt

[utvolzac]

Mora and Glaus is very very close, probably an all around toss up(for this year).

Tejada and Roberts are way way ahead of Hill and Adams.

Hernandez is much better than Molina.

Markakis is more talented than any OFer they have except Wells, he just has to put it together.

Gibbons is better than any OFer they have other than Wells.

Obviusly Overbay is much better

Now, where they are better is the depth of their offense. Guys like Cat, Johnson, Hillenbrand, Rios, Zaun and Hinske are better than Javy, Conine, CPat and Chavez. Now, if we had Matos and Newhan back, it would be closer.

We are deeper in the rotation than they are BUT they are more top heavy than us....BP's are very similar.

They are more talented but it is not alot more.

I don't know if I'd say Mora .vs. Glaus is a toss up. If Glaus stays healthy, he's better in just about every stat, except batting average.

I agree with you about Depth being the difference. Half our offense is either batting below .200 or struggling to stay above it. Conine, Matos, Patterson & company are just killing us offensively.

Plus theres no way you can say Markakis is better than everyone shy of Wells. Not at this point anyway. Maybe in a few months, but he could also be back in the minors. I don't doubt he'll be a good player for us, but he's not been able to hit major league pitching yet. At least for now, he still has to be considered a liability on offense.

We still have too many guys dragging us down offensively to be on the same level as the AL East contenders.

[ledzepp8]

What did watching games against the Angels and Indians tell you about the talent level of the team?

[TinCup]

Can't we all just make peace with the fact that this team will be up-and-down all year, hitting and pitching well some nights and not at all others, and not go completely insane when there is a short streak in either direction?

It's one thing to be excited when we win a couple from good teams, and disappointed when we lose a couple to other teams; it is another to act that we are either going to make the playoffs or suck completely.

BTerp, I actually agree with you. Need to keep a balanced perspective on things.

I would take it one step further though and say that we should all make peace as well with the notion that we are still:

- a pretty average team with some strengths, some sources of hope, as well as some lingering holes/weaknesses

- headed towards a .500 season, plus or minus a few games

-likely finishing in 4th place, maybe third if we exceed expecations,

- aiming for development of the younger players

-and gearing (yes, I know, once again..) for next year.