Chris Tillman 87-89 MPH

[Roll Tide]

This is the big question. SG wondered if he peaked early on but I can't think of any big league pitcher ever who dropped that much velocity before age 25.

To Me He's just over throwing the fast ball. Honestly I think they should tell him to let it fly. On a good note his curve & slider looked good at times. I tend to agree that I don't know how in the world he can make it with that fastball not being a control pitcher.

[Gurgi]

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/whats-wrong-with-chris-tillman/

I found this article on the web. It came out in November of last year.

Are any of the points this guy makes valid?

I have not seen a pitch from Tillman break 90 mph this year. Has anyone else?

[Roll Tide]

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/whats-wrong-with-chris-tillman/

I found this article on the web. It came out in November of last year.

Are any of the points this guy makes valid?

I have not seen a pitch from Tillman break 90 mph this year. Has anyone else?

I heard on the radio some time ago that they had changed his delivery/grip. The reporter said thatmost guys lose velocity at first ...But most regain it. I think it was on 105.7 as thats pretty much all I listen to these days.

[now]

Define getting it done. I will say that he has done a pretty good job of pitching around trouble and avoiding the blowup outing in his brief career but that isn't exactly comforting.

I'm far from sold on Arrieta being more than a #4 but he's shown more than Tillman. His BABIP is right around league average .292 while Tillman's is below at .272. He's also gone deeper in games and has more Quality Starts(11) than Tillman (9) in 7 fewer starts. Plus, IMO his stuff is better and more effective vs ML hitters. Bottom line, I look at Arrieta and I see a guy that is going to stick in the Majors at the back of the rotation even if he doesn't get much better. Tillman is going to have to improve to have any chance of ML career.

Actually your definition of "getting it done" is not bad. Sorry not to go into the stats but it seems to me that in many of his starts Tillman despite overpowering stuff doesn't get hit with hard contact. The downside is more that he doesn't miss a lot of bats either, so the numerous foul balls drive up his pitch count. Arrieta has the same problem, with a similar low K/BB ratio ... okay, now you've drawn me into it:

..........WHIP......H/9....HR/9..BB/9..K/9....K/BB...ERA+...Age

Arrieta 1.524...... 9.5....0.8....4.2... 4.7... 1.10... 95 ....24-25

Tillman 1.492...... 9.2....1.7....4.2... 5.4... 1.29... 83 ....21-23

Arrieta despite more velocity gives up more hits and records less K's. Tillman's achilles heel has been the HR; but Arrieta puts more runners on. Control (BBs) is identical. And significantly, Tillman has put up these comparable results two full years younger (with 24 starts vs. 19 for Arrieta, before today).

You can talk about velocity, stuff, command, etc., but remember here the issue is results... fairly comparable IMO.

[joeyc]

Tillman nibles too much. He goes to 3-2 on almost every batter. he cannot command his stuff, yet. He's still young but I really think he should be in the minors working on his control. He should have the mentality of trying to go strike1, strike 2, strike 3. He seems intimidated and he doesn't challenge the hitters enough. All the O's pitchers need to get it through their heads to be aggressive early in counts and make hitters put the ball in play. Even great hitters get out 7 out of 10 times. Walking batters will kill any pitcher. They all need to be agressive and go after every batter, no maatter who they are.

[UpstateNYfan]

I don't think Tillman nibbles, at the present time he is a little wild and he doesn't have an "out" pitch. He is still looking for a K with 2 strikes on the batter and pitches too high up in the zone IMO. I am not a great fan of a waste pitch with no purpose in 0-2 and 1-2 counts...the young guys have a habit of not being able to find the strike zone after a couple of waste pitches. These guys have to develop a change up, a slider in the dirt or some kind of backdoor pitch to be successful if they don't have a 95 fastball. Most ML won't bite on a shoulder high FB at 90, they see it too much. He'll be OK. send him down?? Not sure, at AAA he might get away with things that don't fly at ML level.

[jjdman]

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/whats-wrong-with-chris-tillman/

I found this article on the web. It came out in November of last year.

Are any of the points this guy makes valid?

I have not seen a pitch from Tillman break 90 mph this year. Has anyone else?

He hit 93 on his third pitch to Manny according to the gun at Tampa.

[Phantom]

Whats wrong with Chris Tillman?

Nothing. He's 24 and still tinkering with how to pitch. The sky is not falling. He is fine.

[BaltBound]

Whats wrong with Chris Tillman?

Nothing. He's 24 and still tinkering with how to pitch. The sky is not falling. He is fine.

He's 22......he'll be 23 in 10 days...but your point is validated.

[Sports Guy]

I would like to see him throw the change up more often than he does.

I think Tillman is going to be a guy that frustrates us all year....from start to start. he will look great one start and terrible the next.

I am hoping that as the weather warms up and his arm gets stronger, that his velocity will go up some.

[wildcard]

Tillman is a work in progress. There is a lot more in him that we are not seeing consistently now.

[Hooded Viper]

He is throwing the cutter and 2 seamer much more often, imo. When he was dialing up the speed it was using the 4 seamer which was obviously straight as a Grizzly's...well it was straight. I also think he is trying to aim the ball rather than just letting it fly. My hope is that as he becomes more comfortable with the cutter/2 seamer as well as the major league competition by actually focusing on pitching rather than worrying about getting sent down, his velocity will pick up. Hopefully.

[Owen21]

I like the fact that Tillman's learning curve is continuing at the major league level. We finally have an offense that has our pitcher's back. They don't need to pitch with the mindset that a shut-out is required, or we lose. Hopefully, Tillman can figure things out while he has the opportunity. Also, I agree with SG regarding the use of the change up should be increased. That seems to be the one pitch that most of the young staff seems apprehensive with.

NOTE....last night I had an appointment from 7:30 - 9:30.....the last thing I heard before the appointment was the Tigers second run scoring. While later listening to the AJ sac / Reynolds rap rally, I checked the boxscore & noticed that Tillman almost made it to 5 full with a tick under 100 pitches, plus clocking at 88mph & we were still in the game...I was somewhat impressed. I would have expected him to be gone after 3 innings & we would have been down by 6-7 runs.

[Araqnid]

I agree with SG's assessment that this will be a guy that frustrates us all year, and that he tends to get things done, even when its not pretty.

That said, let's face facts: This team is struggling to come up with 5 starters. Who comes up to start instead of Tillman, now that Britton is also up here? Do we sign Silva, who will probably be even more maddenlingly frustrating, but also more expensive?

Tillman has done well in the minors, he has nothing left to prove. Sending him down at this point is a lose-lose situation.

[Sports Guy]

Actually your definition of "getting it done" is not bad. Sorry not to go into the stats but it seems to me that in many of his starts Tillman despite overpowering stuff doesn't get hit with hard contact. The downside is more that he doesn't miss a lot of bats either, so the numerous foul balls drive up his pitch count. Arrieta has the same problem, with a similar low K/BB ratio ... okay, now you've drawn me into it:

..........WHIP......H/9....HR/9..BB/9..K/9....K/BB...ERA+...Age

Arrieta 1.524...... 9.5....0.8....4.2... 4.7... 1.10... 95 ....24-25

Tillman 1.492...... 9.2....1.7....4.2... 5.4... 1.29... 83 ....21-23

Arrieta despite more velocity gives up more hits and records less K's. Tillman's achilles heel has been the HR; but Arrieta puts more runners on. Control (BBs) is identical. And significantly, Tillman has put up these comparable results two full years younger (with 24 starts vs. 19 for Arrieta, before today).

You can talk about velocity, stuff, command, etc., but remember here the issue is results... fairly comparable IMO.

Yep..I have pointed this out a lot.

He is very much like the Loewen was. He doesn't get hit hard but he gives up a lot of baserunners and gets his pitch count driven up.

The problem with Tillman is that he will give up homers. If you don't give up the baserunners, giving up homers isn't a big deal. But when you are giving up a bunch of baserunners, many of those homers will be multi-run homers and that's what kills him.