Why are the Orioles games not sold out right now?

[LookitsPuck]

I am obviously not local but my gut feeling is you are overestimating the losing. Most attendance is season ticket driven correct? I can see where the Ravens (families have to choose), the Nats (DC business money moved to DC) and the economy will all hit season ticket plans sales more then single game sales.

I would say your numbers look good for season game/walkup sales.

Why would families choose to go with a ridiculously overpriced product (i.e. NFL)?

The Nats and economy have the biggest effect outside of losing. The Ravens shouldn't even be mentioned. Their seasons only intersect by a month.

[Can_of_corn]

Why would families choose to go with a ridiculously overpriced product (i.e. NFL)?

The Nats and economy have the biggest effect outside of losing. The Ravens shouldn't even be mentioned. Their seasons only intersect by a month.

The overlap doesn't matter for season ticket budgeting. I think there are a number of families (I see it down here with the Rays and the Lightning) that make a decision of which of a city's team they get season tickets for. I also think that there were football fans in Baltimore that got O's season tickets because they were the only game in town, and once their favored sport returned the O's were cast aside.

[Frobby]

If I had to estimate, I'd say:

14 years of Losing 75%

The economy 10%

The Nats 10%

The Ravens 5%

That might be generous to the last three factors. The 14 years of losing is the overwhelming reason.

I am obviously not local but my gut feeling is you are overestimating the losing. Most attendance is season ticket driven correct? I can see where the Ravens (families have to choose), the Nats (DC business money moved to DC) and the economy will all hit season ticket plans sales more then single game sales.

I would say your numbers look good for season game/walkup sales.

I will briefly repeat my reasons:

1. Attendance dropped by 1 million fans in 7 years before the Nats arrived.

2. The Nats' first year in DC, they drew over 2.7 mm fans, but Orioles' attendance dropped by only 120,000. The Nats have never drawn as many as 2.7 mm fans since then, and won't this year.

3. The O's dropped another 500,000 fans from 2005 to 2006, even though Nats' attendance also went down significantly. Why? Because the fans were disgusted with what went down in 2005 (the Raffy steroids scandal and the team's 2nd half collapse). Ever since then, the fans have been skeptical of whether a good start by the Orioles really means anything -- and that skepticism was reinforced in several subsequent season.

4. The O's drew 3 million plus fans for each of the first six seasons the Ravens played in Baltimore. Orioles' attendance increased the year the Ravens got here. And its not like there are more people attending Ravens games now than there were in those years.

5. Major league attendance is up in 2012 depsite the economy.

I have little doubt in my mind that if the Orioles had been a decent team the last 14 years, they would still be drawing 3 million fans in a year like this, despite the Nats, the Ravens and the economy.

[LookitsPuck]

The overlap doesn't matter for season ticket budgeting. I think there are a number of families (I see it down here with the Rays and the Lightning) that make a decision of which of a city's team they get season tickets for. I also think that there were football fans in Baltimore that got O's season tickets because they were the only game in town, and once their favored sport returned the O's were cast aside.

PSL's are tough to get. They're ridiculously overpriced. The season is ridiculously overpriced. What family is choosing between Ravens overpriced PSL/season tickets and a variety of available packages for the O's? I'd guess not many at all.

[TonySoprano]

It isn't that simple. Attendance has been effected by:

1-The Nationals

2-The Ravens

3-The economy

If I had to estimate, I'd say:

14 years of Losing 75%

The economy 10%

The Nats 10%

The Ravens 5%

That might be generous to the last three factors. The 14 years of losing is the overwhelming reason.

Peter Angelos (aka 14 years of Losing) 75%

The Nats 10%

The Ravens 10%

The economy 5%

[SilentJames]

The Ravens? Really? They're a non-factor, IMHO.

I think they have an impact. Especially when you consider the type of client they are both trying to bring in. Season ticket buyers have cash, but still a limited amount. I think it would be very interesting study to see how many Ravens PSL owners chose them over orioles season tickets, neither are cheap and choices are made with entertainment dollars.

Look at orioles attendance numbers in the 60's and 70's. Heyday of the orioles, but never drew remarkably well. The orioles never drew huge until after the colts left. It also happens that the ascension of the ravens matches the fall of the orioles.

The losing is definitely the problem, but if both teams are going to be good, just suppose, then the orioles are going to be in direct competition for those bg ticket season ticket plans with the ravens. And seeing as how attendance is primarily driven by those plans the economic drain of the ravens on the available entertainment dollars of that pool of clients will be strained.

Just a theory.

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[Ohfan67]

Good discussion in here. Nice stuff.

[Jagwar]

For the first time in 14 years, the O's are contenders for a playoff spot on August 27th.

And there's like 3 people at the Yard. Unbelievable.

[jofalfa]

I understood the skepticism most of the summer but it's the end of August now. It has to be a bit disheartening for the players at this point. To be honest I'm surprised we haven't heard any of them say anything about it. I doubt that they'd say something that would annoy fans like that guy in Cleveland did earlier in the year but I can see Jones saying something to encourage people to get out there.

[theocean]

This can't be answered in generalities, like "Well, we're winning and it's August now and attendance is up for MLB, so I don't get why there isn't a sell out every night."

If this question is about whether or not people care about the O's, I think that's silly.

My grandpa is 92 and stays up and watches every single game, even the West Coast games! But, the man is not going to go to the ballpark. He'd like to sit in his chair, eat some gravy bread, and enjoy life.

What demographics of people usually go to the ballpark? I think that changes with every city. Have you guys ever been to a Nats game? Maybe not this year, but when I went in seasons past, everyone leaves by the 6th inning! I guess they use it as business meetings or something, but, are they fans?

Yankee Stadium - all the seats behind the dugouts. Nobody from the Bronx is probably sitting there that often.

Baltimore is a blue collar town and I think you're seeing the economy, which has been tough on blue collar workers, impacting Baltimore more than other cities. So there's that.

And last, but not least - they haven't had a winning season since 1997.I'm 22 and was born in 1989. I was 7 years old and in second grade the last time the O's had a winning season. Since the last time the O's had a winning season, I've learned multiplication, long division, graduated middle school, learned to drive, graduated high school, went to college, and graduated from college - all in the span. So, while all my friends are big O's fans, most people my age are kinda ehh about the O's and baseball in general. They never have had a good team to root for and grew up watching football because the Ravens, well, were good.

[gallden]

10,995 second lowest of the season.

[Frobby]

Disgraceful.

[drew42]

Embarrassing crowd.... no other way to say it....sad

[scottbbfm]

10,995 second lowest of the season.

People will make the usual excuses - first day of school, economy, blah blah but the fact of the matter is the Orioles marketing has done absolutely zero to capitalize on the on the field product by offering late season packages - and specifically targeting the thousands of singles and couples without children that live within 4 miles of the park who haven't seen a winner since they were 10 or younger or are even looking for a local team to cheer for.

[EutawBomber]

It's also the quietest crowd I have ever heard for a tied game in the late innings.