Roch: O's trying to reach a deal with Reynolds

[MemorialStadKid]

Ahh I love the name calling, now anyone who wants to sign ONE free agent of significance in the last 15 years and bump the payroll up to a CRAZY $120 million is an "extremist" in your eyes.

Love it.

I will NEVER understand this absolute fear/hatred of signing superstar FAs who will HELP the team.

Wow. I swear, I wonder if warehouse people post on the OH? What fan base on earth hates spending the owner's money? LOL

MSK

[TradeAngelos]

Not to take away from your Peter Angelos hating, but just remember a few things...

1. This team, without Roberts, Reimold, Kakes for a bit, 4/5 of the starting rotation at times out, etc, STILL won 93 games and damn near took the AL East.

2. Double D, who in YOUR mind is "standing pat" made more moves than any other team DURING the season last year.

But go on with your bad self!

LOL. I think you would be in quite the minority showing your love and affection for our owner around Baltimore baseball fans (or anywhere), but nice "dig".

Roberts and Reimold?? What exactly were we counting on from them? Nothing.

So starting pitchers got dinged up here and there throughout the season, great. Think that won't happen next year?

Markakis missed 6 weeks with a injury, and since that happened last year it definitely won't happen again with anyone on our roster in 2013. Because players missing 6 weeks in a season never happens. Got it.

I will bet you right now that...

1. Our starters make some trips to the DL in 2013, missing time here and there.

2. Every position player will not stay healthy, and one or two might miss 6 weeks or so.

3. Angelos will still be a POS and you will be in the minority supporting him, even here.

Who do you think wins that bet?

[scOtt]

Get him back. 2 years+. He's the Sheriff, and his theme song is Under Pressure.

Not the best vid but.....

[video=youtube;68_W3NZkXEY]

GOOSE

[scOtt]

Of course.

This a nice way to phrase it. And I believe that he must be looking to agitate.

Agitprop!

[scOtt]

What about the other guys who will inevitably get hurt along the way?

These "full season from a, b, and c player" arguments are useless because there will be another a, b, and c getting hurt next year/underperforming.

No team stays perfectly healthy over the course of 162 games, so why exactly should we be counting on that from our guys?

To make an argument to stand pat, I know.

Thus we need to sign many guys like Casilla, Robinson, Reynolds, McLouth etc. Not tie up all our eggs in one basket (Hamilton.)

[Olson30]

Ahh I love the name calling, now anyone who wants to sign ONE free agent of significance in the last 15 years and bump the payroll up to a CRAZY $120 million is an "extremist" in your eyes.

Love it.

Nestor is that you? :rolleyestf:

I can name four in those 15 years

Albert Belle

Miguel Tejada

Rafael Palmeiro

Javy Lopz

[Frobby]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when its the same tired beating of the drum over and over, then people are JUST as entitled to call them out on it.

The fact is, even without emptying the checkbook for free agents that 9 times out of ten do not live up to the ridiculous contracts, we STILL were able to make the playoffs and were, as someone else said, 2 bad JJ appearances away from being in the ALCS, where worst case, we would have fared better than the $200 million team loaded with "premium talent."

Look, as you know, I am mostly on your side of the substantive argument. I just don't have a problem with posters who strenuously take the other point of view, and I don't think that means they are less of an Orioles fan than me.

Here are the best arguments the "other side" has, in my opinion:

1. According to BP, the O's lost far less WAR due to injury than the other teams in the AL East. We lost a lot of games from role players or older or unproven players, while the other teams missed a lot of games from players who were reasonably expected to be very important to their teams When those things even out, the Orioles will either be weakened, or facing stronger opposition.

2. The team had record-setting performances in one-run games and extra-inning games, that are extremely unlikely to be repeated.

3. The O's pitching staff consisted of a lot of relievers having career years, and a number of starters who did well for a half-season but are unproven in the longer term.

4. The "no big moves" approach worked in 2012, but it hasn't worked in the previous 8 years (I'm limiting it to 8 years since the O's did sign Tejada, Lopez and Palmeiro in the winter of 2003-04). One success in that amount of time doesn't make the Orioles' strategy a successful strategy.

5. There are a number of objective sources (Forbes, for example) that sugges that the Orioles can spend a lot more money if they choose to do so, and that their claims that they are limited to more or less the current budget are false.

For me, I think all those arguments have some credence. At the same time, however, the fact is that we did just win 93 games, we do have a pretty good core group of players, and I feel that Duquette and Showalter have earned a good degree of deference, at least for this winter. And frankly, there's a part of me that likes rooting for the underdog team that wins without buying their way into the playoffs.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I will NEVER understand this absolute fear/hatred of signing superstar FAs who will HELP the team.

Wow. I swear, I wonder if warehouse people post on the OH? What fan base on earth hates spending the owner's money? LOL

MSK

Well, that's the point - not everyone thinks paying $20+ million to an aging name player will necessarily help the team.

More or less every decision in baseball is made on a cost versus benefits basis. If a player isn't worth the money, or if that money could be better spent elsewhere, then I don't really care that it's not my money.

I would absolutely sign Hamilton for 5/$100, by the way. I think he'll get a lot more than that from someone else, though (and likely won't be worth it).

[waroriole]

Honestly, I do not think that it's right to trash posters who complain that Angelos is cheap and that the Orioles should spend way more money than they do. They are entitled to their opinion.

Come on. You know nobody is calling them out because they want PA to spend. Everyone wants that. They get called out because they use all these strawmen arguments to make their points. Then you get MSK coming in with a trade proposal that makes us a lot worse, and shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Then, he won't even explain it when asked. No, nobody gets called out because they want a higher payroll.

[MemorialStadKid]

Come on. You know nobody is calling them out because they want PA to spend. Everyone wants that. They get called out because they use all these strawmen arguments to make their points. Then you get MSK coming in with a trade proposal that makes us a lot worse, and shows he doesn't know what he's talking about. Then, he won't even explain it when asked. No, nobody gets called out because they want a higher payroll.

I did explain it.

Geesh.

MSK

[waroriole]

I did explain it.

Geesh.

MSK

Where? Please just copy and paste why you would trade those 3 for Smoak.

[TradeAngelos]

Look, as you know, I am mostly on your side of the substantive argument. I just don't have a problem with posters who strenuously take the other point of view, and I don't think that means they are less of an Orioles fan than me.

Here are the best arguments the "other side" has, in my opinion:

1. According to BP, the O's lost far less WAR due to injury than the other teams in the AL East. We lost a lot of games from role players or older or unproven players, while the other teams missed a lot of games from players who were reasonably expected to be very important to their teams When those things even out, the Orioles will either be weakened, or facing stronger opposition.

2. The team had record-setting performances in one-run games and extra-inning games, that are extremely unlikely to be repeated.

3. The O's pitching staff consisted of a lot of relievers having career years, and a number of starters who did well for a half-season but are unproven in the longer term.

4. The "no big moves" approach worked in 2012, but it hasn't worked in the previous 8 years (I'm limiting it to 8 years since the O's did sign Tejada, Lopez and Palmeiro in the winter of 2003-04). One success in that amount of time doesn't make the Orioles' strategy a successful strategy.

5. There are a number of objective sources (Forbes, for example) that sugges that the Orioles can spend a lot more money if they choose to do so, and that their claims that they are limited to more or less the current budget are false.

For me, I think all those arguments have some credence. At the same time, however, the fact is that we did just win 93 games, we do have a pretty good core group of players, and I feel that Duquette and Showalter have earned a good degree of deference, at least for this winter. And frankly, there's a part of me that likes rooting for the underdog team that wins without buying their way into the playoffs.

Just tried to send you a pm, box is full!

[WORST OWNER]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when its the same tired beating of the drum over and over, then people are JUST as entitled to call them out on it.

The fact is, even without emptying the checkbook for free agents that 9 times out of ten do not live up to the ridiculous contracts, we STILL were able to make the playoffs and were, as someone else said, 2 bad JJ appearances away from being in the ALCS, where worst case, we would have fared better than the $200 million team loaded with "premium talent."

Just wondering if you are PA's right hand man?

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Jim Johnson, Zach Britton, and Nolan Reimold for Justin Smoak is possibly the worst trade idea I have heard...like, ever.

I literally have no clue how anyone could look at his body of work and conclude that he would be an ugrade over Mark Reynolds.

[MemorialStadKid]

Where? Please just copy and paste why you would trade those 3 for Smoak.

My mistake, I should have said Smoak-type from a couple of years ago.

I wish we could get a Votto or even a Trout from a trade.

MSK