Josh Hamilton market update - 3 years $60-75 million

[MurphDogg]

Hardy has had a sub .720 OPS (Including three under .700) in 5 of his 8 seasons. Two seasons with an OPS over .800 does wonders for a career average obviously.

Either way, Jones and Davis had the best seasons of their careers up to this point. How can that be considered underachieiving?

Hardy's numbers were the worst of his career. Davis was actually better in his rookie season and I don't consider anything that an active player does under the age of 30 a career year. We don't yet know whether they are going to be better in their career, at 26 they are younger than the peak year of the average player.

[scOtt]

[Blizzard1090]

Not shocked at all. His interview after the Wild Card game spoke volumes about how he felt Rangers FO and fanbase had turned on him.

I didn't expect him to go to the Angels but I'm not surprised that he left the Rangers.

[Dark Helmet]

Because almost the entirety of the rest of the offense underacheived.

How?

Chris Davis - .827 OPS in 2012/Career Avg of .775

Adam Jones- .839 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .775

Matt Wieters- .764 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .749

Nick Markakis- .834 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .819

Thats basically the middle of the lineup for 2013. How did they underachieve, when they all were above their career avg. OPS wise? I'll give you Machado and Hardy could and probably should be better, but how much is anyones guess.

As for 2B, yeah Casilla and his career .639 OPS is going to be worlds better than Andino and his .620 career OPS.

Nate might have given them a .777 OPS in his month here, but to have a .700 OPS over a full season, is expecting him to do something he hasn't done in 3 years.

You have what will most likely be the middle of the order in 2013, all above their career averages in OPS in 2012. How is that a majority of the team underachieved?

So, you're going to have to hope you get atleast the same out of them, hope Machado and Hardy can improve and bounce back, and rely on a LF to do something over a full season he hasn't been able to do since 2009 and second base will still be a black hole?

You have more faith in that then I do.

[Dark Helmet]

Hardy's numbers were the worst of his career. Davis was actually better in his rookie season and I don't consider anything that an active player does under the age of 30 a career year. We don't yet know whether they are going to be better in their career, at 26 they are younger than the peak year of the average player.

Actually, Hardy was worse in 2009, when he had a .659 OPS. I'm not saying Davis and Jones won't be good in 2013. They may even be better. But, I don't see a lot of room to improve for them. Mostly because of their plate dicipline. They need both of those two to atleast duplicate 2012, and hope the rest improve a great deal. Other than Machado, I don't see a lot of growth potential. I think Wieters could hit a few more HR, but he's basically "What you see is what you get" after four years. Second base is still a black hole. I think DH will be worse in 2013, and like I said, McLouth will have to do something he hasn't since 2009. Just my point of view, but I think this team needs another bat. Not saying a "MOO" type, but a proven hitter that you know what you will get.

[luismatos4prez]

How?

Chris Davis - .827 OPS in 2012/Career Avg of .775

Adam Jones- .839 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .775

Matt Wieters- .764 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .749

Nick Markakis- .834 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .819

Thats basically the middle of the lineup for 2013. How did they underachieve, when they all were above their career avg. OPS wise? I'll give you Machado and Hardy could and probably should be better, but how much is anyones guess.

As for 2B, yeah Casilla and his career .639 OPS is going to be worlds better than Andino and his .620 career OPS.

Nate might have given them a .777 OPS in his month here, but to have a .700 OPS over a full season, is expecting him to do something he hasn't done in 3 years.

You have what will most likely be the middle of the order in 2013, all above their career averages in OPS in 2012. How is that a majority of the team underachieved?

So, you're going to have to hope you get atleast the same out of them, hope Machado and Hardy can improve and bounce back, and rely on a LF to do something over a full season he hasn't been able to do since 2009 and second base will still be a black hole?

You have more faith in that then I do.

Luckily, Casilla doesn't have to beat Andino's career numbers, just the .596 OPS that our 2B put up last year.

Good players improve from age 25-26. That's how player development works. Same from age 26-27. Those aren't considered career years. If they don't beat their career averages in that year, then they probably aren't very good players, or are hurt or something.

With Machado's development, Hardy progressing to the mean, and Jones and Davis continued development, that's four positions.

As I mentioned above, our 2B OPS last year was .596. That's easily beatable by Casilla. The LF OPS was .694. I'm confident that even if McLouth/Reimold don't do awesome, they can beat that production.

I've already explained how Betemit/Valencia should make an above average DH. Easily better than the .730 OPS our DHs put up last year.

It's hard to be too optimistic about Wieters living up to expectations or Markakis returning to early career form, but I'm content with improvement from 7 of the 9 positions.

[MurphDogg]

How?

Chris Davis - .827 OPS in 2012/Career Avg of .775

Adam Jones- .839 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .775

Matt Wieters- .764 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .749

Nick Markakis- .834 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .819

Thats basically the middle of the lineup for 2013. How did they underachieve, when they all were above their career avg. OPS wise? I'll give you Machado and Hardy could and probably should be better, but how much is anyones guess.

As for 2B, yeah Casilla and his career .639 OPS is going to be worlds better than Andino and his .620 career OPS.

Nate might have given them a .777 OPS in his month here, but to have a .700 OPS over a full season, is expecting him to do something he hasn't done in 3 years.

You have what will most likely be the middle of the order in 2013, all above their career averages in OPS in 2012. How is that a majority of the team underachieved?

So, you're going to have to hope you get atleast the same out of them, hope Machado and Hardy can improve and bounce back, and rely on a LF to do something over a full season he hasn't been able to do since 2009 and second base will still be a black hole?

You have more faith in that then I do.

He said the rest of the team underachieved.

Not sure how Andino's career OPS is relevant in determining whether he underachieved last year.

Also Nate's season is less relevant than our overall leftfield production.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

How?

Chris Davis - .827 OPS in 2012/Career Avg of .775

Adam Jones- .839 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .775

Matt Wieters- .764 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .749

Nick Markakis- .834 OPS in 2012/Career Avg. of .819

Thats basically the middle of the lineup for 2013. How did they underachieve, when they all were above their career avg. OPS wise? I'll give you Machado and Hardy could and probably should be better, but how much is anyones guess.

As for 2B, yeah Casilla and his career .639 OPS is going to be worlds better than Andino and his .620 career OPS.

Nate might have given them a .777 OPS in his month here, but to have a .700 OPS over a full season, is expecting him to do something he hasn't done in 3 years.

You have what will most likely be the middle of the order in 2013, all above their career averages in OPS in 2012. How is that a majority of the team underachieved?

So, you're going to have to hope you get atleast the same out of them, hope Machado and Hardy can improve and bounce back, and rely on a LF to do something over a full season he hasn't been able to do since 2009 and second base will still be a black hole?

You have more faith in that then I do.

I'm sorry. Perhaps I should've elaborated. What I should've said was that pretty much the rest of the offense underachieved or was injured and their replacements underachieved or just weren't very good.

[MemorialStadKid]

Typical Orioles off season.

A player we could have afforded has signed with another team that really didn't need him. Now, the Angels may be literally unstoppable. It's going to be a massacre in OPACY when they come to visit and I wonder what all the naysayers and anti-FA people will say when Hamilton does another 3-3 or 4-4 night?

It's funny how everyone forgets about payroll come June when the high-priced guy is raking in HRs, RBIs and other offensive stats.

5/125 is not the end of the universe. It is affordable. I'm tired of hearing about market size and so on. Baltimore is not Omaha, Nebraska.

So we have Davis? DAVIS?!?!?!!? On 1B.

Lord almighty.

The Red Sox signed Dempster. Even in a "Rebuild" mode, they still don't want to lose any games. Meanwhile, the good ol' Orioles FO keeps things the way they are... hoping for the best while not preparing for it.

Dumpster diving can work if everyone over-performs and things happen to break your way. Recreating 2012 in 2013 with no significant upgrades is pure insanity. Yet, this is the path we are told will work.

With not ONE real offensive upgrade. Please tell me how wrong I am and how I am a troll for pointing this out, but we have not upgraded anything in the face of the Blue Jays retooling and Red Sox putting the pieces back together. And as much as we might hate to admit it, the Yankees aren't finished yet and the Rays manage to hang in there year after year since 2008.

This is going to be a tough year.

MSK

[Malike]

Davis is not nearly as bad as you are making him out to be. Not even close. I know that your schtick is to fly off the handle and make irrational statements based on your opinions, but Davis will not be the butcher you are making him out to be.

[McNulty]

First, Hamilton's WAR last year was 3.4. Torii Hunter, who they lost, had over 5. They need some pitching. The winner of the offseason rarely wins in the postseason.

Beyond that, this is easily the most predictable post of the offseason. You are a troll, and you are the only one who doesn't realize it.

I do believe the Orioles, as constructed, will have a league average offense (perhaps slightly better), but I do believe they need another bat. Unlike you, and much like a rational person, I know that another bat does not have to come from only Hamilton.

[MemorialStadKid]

First, Hamilton's WAR last year was 3.4. Torii Hunter, who they lost, had over 5. They need some pitching. The winner of the offseason rarely wins in the postseason.

Beyond that, this is easily the most predictable post of the offseason. You are a troll, and you are the only one who doesn't realize it.

I do believe the Orioles, as constructed, will have a league average offense (perhaps slightly better), but I do believe they need another bat. Unlike you, and much like a rational person, I know that another bat does not have to come from only Hamilton.

Insults aside, I am a rational person.

I just don't accept the myth of the pauper Orioles.

And if not Hamilton who? We aren't in the mix for anything right now.

MSK

[Aristotelian]

Just remember, high priced free agents have never done the trick for us (OK, Palmeiro and Alomar are exceptions). I am glad we are not paying A-Rod 25 million a year right now. Do you really want to be paying Hamilton 25 million in 2017? If you do that, then maybe we aren't able to extend Wieters or Bundy when the time comes. We have gotten to where we are by developing players from within. No we did not make any upgrades through free agency, but we have Bundy and Gausman in the pipeline, along with some good prospect in Schoop and Flaherty. That's how we will improve our team. We may not have done much, but at least we didn't do anything stupid.

[McNulty]

Insults aside, I am a rational person.

I just don't accept the myth of the pauper Orioles.

And if not Hamilton who? We aren't in the mix for anything right now.

MSK

I don't accept that myth either. Its pretty clear that they could increase payroll. But they aren't going to, so come join the rest of us in reality. You'll be less angry.

As far as the additional bat goes, it could be anyone. Its for the DH spot. I've pointed out before how Betemit/Valencia basically amounts to Konerko from last year. That's a solid player.

I'd rather have Swisher than Hamilton. I'm hopeful they will sign/trade for someone before the season. If they don't, I'll be upset. But I'm not going into your territory of vitriol any time soon.

[Bohs&O's]

At the end of the day, Josh Hamilton was still an easy strike out for Brian Matusz in a playoff game in which he did absolutely nothing against the mighty Orioles pitching staff. Meh.

Pitching, pitching, pitching! In DD I trust!