We seriously need to consider another closer at this point

[AlbionHero]

For the people who still want JJ to be the closer, I have a question.

If you were the opposing team, would you want to see JJ, a guy whos blown 4 of his last 5 saves, come out to close the game, or someone else?

I think I'd rather see JJ if I was the opposing team since it would give me a chance to win. The closer is supposed to be a pitcher that scares the opposing team and demoralizes them.

[Jonesy10]

I'd give JJ one more chance in the closers role. Probably not tomorrow, but I'd go e him another chance. If he blows that one, he needs to work out his problems in low leverage situations. You simply can't throw away games the way he has when you're a playoff caliber team. The difference between 27-23 and 29-21 is huge.

[Norfolk orioles]

Funny. The Orioles have almost exactly the same relievers as they did last year, and Buck has used them in almost exactly the same situations as he did last year. Yet when the pitchers don't do their job, it's his fault?

You say that Strop, Johnson, and Patton have all been awful. Well, guess what -- that's 3 guys out of a 7-man bullpen. Your solution would be, what, to not use any of them in any close games, ever? Good luck with that. Let me know how your 4-man bullpen works out for you.

Buck's handling of the bullpen is no different than it was last year. The fact is that the relievers just aren't performing as well as they did in 2012.

Then by that rationale he deserves no credit for how well they performed last year.

You can't have it both ways.

[allquixotic]

The more I think about it, the more I want to run JJ out there for the next save opportunity. I know this is an unpopular time and place for that idea, but what the hell. I still believe in him. I don't have any magical reason why, I just do. Blast away.

I actually agree. We should trot him out in every single save opportunity regardless of who we're playing against, how tired he is, etc. Let's get our losing-due-to-Jim-Johnson out of the way now. When we've lost 9 or 10 in a row because Jim can't throw a pitch in the strike zone without making it a meatball served on a golden platter, the media and public outcry will be so loud that not even Robo Buck could ignore it, and they'll finally do something about Jim. Then we can get back to winning.

[JLee2027]

I know Jim Johnson was really good last year... but he just has completely lost his stuff now. We can't keep on sending him out there to blow saves. This is so frustrating.

Way too early to say this. Pitchers, like hitters, go through ups and downs. Let's not make this out to be more than it is. He's in a slump, and we'll just have to wait it out, rather than panic and replace him.

[joew]

Buck needs to protect Johnson as if he's a young starter at this point. Can't allow him to lose a game. If we're up by one, one base runner max or hr then he gets the plug. Like today, it's worse allowing Johnson to struggle and lose then pulling him out.

[oriolesmagic9]

After the 14 seasons of stink, this sentence (about a closer being terrible for 2 weeks for a team,and manager, that's been over .500 for a year+) for some reason really made me lol. This is in no way as worse as having to watch the likes of Devi Cruz, Travis Driskill, Mike DeJean, etc., etc.

Good point. Us O's fans have been dragged through the mud for 14 years. It's gonna take allot more than this unfortunate stretch to ruin my spirits. At least we are talking about how to win the division. It wasn't long ago that we were hoping we wouldn't lose 100 games.

[tntoriole]

Bring back Kevin Gregg, who is 6 for 6 in saves with Cubs. Maybe we can get him and Garza in a package to help starting and closing situations. Wonder what the Cubs might want?

[joew]

Way too early to say this. Pitchers, like hitters, go through ups and downs. Let's not make this out to be more than it is. He's in a slump, and we'll just have to wait it out, rather than panic and replace him.

The Orioles are a playoff team now.its win now. Not a time hat allows talent to struggle through. That is why Matsuz is a relief and Arrieta and Britton are in AAA.

[nate22]

I'd give JJ one more chance in the closers role. Probably not tomorrow, but I'd go e him another chance. If he blows that one, he needs to work out his problems in low leverage situations. You simply can't throw away games the way he has when you're a playoff caliber team. The difference between 27-23 and 29-21 is huge.

I'm not sure JJ will be available tomorrow. He's pitched in back to back games and threw a ton of pitches today.

[PaulFolk]

So yeah, buck had one good year. He pushed all the right buttons. So far this year he's been lousy. He's left Johnson out past 30 pitches several times in a 2-3 week span when everyone and their mother could see his tank was on E.

That's not "supporting your guy".....that's letting him die a slow death.

I'll be interested to see if you are right and he goes to someone else, but I doubt it. Buck's history and modus operandi is that he's extremely stubborn.

Based on what? Because he doesn't immediately pull a guy after a couple of bad outings? When you're managing players -- particularly veterans -- it's not as simple as saying, "Oh, you had a couple bad games, you're gone." The only thing that'll accomplish is losing the clubhouse. Players will always be looking over their shoulders if they go into an 0-for-8 drought or have two bad starts or relief appearances in a row. Managers, almost by rule, need to have a longer leash with players than fans do. Look at Manny Machado -- people thought Buck was crazy to put him in the #2 spot, and were calling him a fool when Machado struggled for the first couple weeks. Buck stuck with him and it paid off big time.

Now obviously there reaches a certain point where you have to make a change if the struggles continue. It's a matter of finding the right balance so that you're not giving players a ridiculously short leash, but you're also not sticking with them too long to the team's peril. I trust that Buck has a better sense of when he's reached that point than fans do, simply because he has a better idea of players' personalities and what's going on in the clubhouse.

He can't keep costing us games like that, and let their be NO debate, buck cost us that game today, not Jim. Buck had plenty of time with a 3 run lead to see Johnson didn't have it. After the walk to the number 8 hitter and 30 pitches he should have been out of the game.

I probably would've pulled JJ at that point, too. But keep in mind that Patton -- by your own admission -- has also been terrible this year. Are you saying that if he had brought in Patton and he blew the game, you wouldn't still be insisting that Buck screwed up?

Again this isn't just some recent development. Yeah, he's lost 4 of 5, but before that he was still a very shaky closer. He also blew 2 saves against the Yankees in the playoffs so to just keep sending him out there and pretend this is just a bad week or two he will get over is unfair to him. He's lost command and confidence and yet buck keeps forcing him into pressure packed situations.

Johnson was "a very shaky closer" before this stretch? Really? The guy who saved 50 out of 53 games last year, and his first 14 of this year? That sounds to me like you're revising the past based on what's happening in the present.

[oriolesmagic9]

I actually agree. We should trot him out in every single save opportunity regardless of who we're playing against, how tired he is, etc. Let's get our losing-due-to-Jim-Johnson out of the way now. When we've lost 9 or 10 in a row because Jim can't throw a pitch in the strike zone without making it a meatball served on a golden platter, the media and public outcry will be so loud that not even Robo Buck could ignore it, and they'll finally do something about Jim. Then we can get back to winning.

I sense sarcasm.

[Mondo Trasho]

Well there are three key points to this thread: do we need to find another closer?, do we need to look for one "seriously"? and do we need another closer "at this point"?

The answer to the first question is clearly yes. And it really has nothing to do with Jim Johnson. Closers rarely last a long time, relievers in general don't last that long. So you should always look for another closer, future or present.

The answer to the second question is we need to look for one seriously enough. Options are limited at this point. Shut down closers aren't hanging out at the local Applebees; all the good ones are currently taken. So, we should look, but not put too much effort into it because it'll be hard to find.

And finally, I think we've gotten to the point where the bullpen is becoming an issue. Not just Johnson, but everyone. We need to finish games we have a lead in. Not necessarily win every one run game like last year, but when you score as many runs as we do, you need to win more.

[PaulFolk]

Then by that rationale he deserves no credit for how well they performed last year.

You can't have it both ways.

Obviously the players deserve most of the credit for their excellent performances last year, yes. A manager's primary jobs when handling the bullpen, IMO, are #1, to manage their workloads so that nobody's getting burned out, and #2, to use the best relievers in the best situations.

Buck has done the first part very well both last year and this year. As for the second part, he did a better job last year than this year, largely because he had more good options.

[Majopa]

Why does everyone think we need to find a new closer?

I have a question for those people, why do we need a closer? Why can't we pitch to match ups in the 9th like we do in the 6th, 7th, and 8th?