Did I Hear Mike Bordick Correct??

[calmunderfire]

It'd be hard to put in a player who has been flat out average during his career so far with the exception of 2008.

[rjslomo]

Also here's an interesting hypothetical scenario........say nick does get 3,000 hits in the post steroid era with no questions asked........could they let him in the HOF, hypothetically speaking, even with 0 all star game appearances (even though we all know what a joke this has become).

Think about that hypothetical......it's a tough one. A hall of famer who was never once an all star.......it could theoretically be possible.

Uh oh. Project time. Who is the "least heralded" Baseball Hall of Famer? I'm just finishing up Bill James' Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? and it's a great read. He spends much of the book with rather convincing arguments on why Phil Rizzuto & Don Drysdale probably shouldn't be in the Hall. Of course, the biggest problem he has is with the Veterans Committee starting the the Fifties, I think, and going until around the early Seventies and how they inducted a bunch of their teammates/friends that were very good players but really lowered the standards of the Hall to being just for the great to lower tier guys that should be in the Hall of Very Good.

[DrungoHazewood]

Uh oh. Project time. Who is the "least heralded" Baseball Hall of Famer? I'm just finishing up Bill James' Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame? and it's a great read. He spends much of the book with rather convincing arguments on why Phil Rizzuto & Don Drysdale probably shouldn't be in the Hall. Of course, the biggest problem he has is with the Veterans Committee starting the the Fifties, I think, and going until around the early Seventies and how they inducted a bunch of their teammates/friends that were very good players but really lowered the standards of the Hall to being just for the great to lower tier guys that should be in the Hall of Very Good.

If you equate "least heralded" with "worst" your short list has to include Freddy Lindstrom, Tommy McCarthy, Ray Schalk, Jim Rice, Rube Marquard, Jim Bottomley, Chick Hafey, Lloyd Waner, Ross Youngs, Jack Chesbro, Catfish Hunter, Jesse Haines, and really any number of players from the 1900-40 era who wouldn't get a 2nd look today.

Some of those guys like McCarthy were there from the early-to-mid 40s, so the de facto standards were lowered to "Brady Anderson" after the Hall was only a few years old. Although you might give the voters a pass because they had few numbers to go on, just stories, and absolutely no ability to put into context the few numbers they had. The Baseball Encyclopedia didn't even exist until 1969. The rumor, repeated in James' book, was that the committee got Lloyd Waner's file mixed up with brother Paul's and that's how he got in the Hall.

[Tony-OH]

If you equate "least heralded" with "worst" your short list has to include Freddy Lindstrom, Tommy McCarthy, Ray Schalk, Jim Rice, Rube Marquard, Jim Bottomley, Chick Hafey, Lloyd Waner, Ross Youngs, Jack Chesbro, Catfish Hunter, Jesse Haines, and really any number of players from the 1900-40 era who wouldn't get a 2nd look today.

Some of those guys like McCarthy were there from the early-to-mid 40s, so the de facto standards were lowered to "Brady Anderson" after the Hall was only a few years old. Although you might give the voters a pass because they had few numbers to go on, just stories, and absolutely no ability to put into context the few numbers they had. The Baseball Encyclopedia didn't even exist until 1969. The rumor, repeated in James' book, was that the committee got Lloyd Waner's file mixed up with brother Paul's and that's how he got in the Hall.

That's just amazing. Saying that, it really does illustrate that some people take for granted the amount of information we now have at our keyboards.

[atomic]

He has 24.5 War in 7 1/2 seasons at age 29. If he played another 9 seasons a his current pace he would end up with 55 War for his career. If he could get up to around 60 he would have a decent chance. Guys in that range have made it. Well Dave Winfield made it in a landslide and Reggie Smith got almost no votes. So I think it is more a popularity thing too. Maybe if the Orioles make the post season a few times and Markakis shines he will get noticed enough to have a chance.

[atomic]

I think with the expansion time bomb looming standards will go up significantly and even a 3000 hit player who never really was an MVP candidate and just got to one or two counting stat thresholds by sticking around forever wouldn't go in. 3000 hits was set up as a trigger for induction when there were 16 MLB teams, now that there's 30 and twice as many good players either the standards have to go up, or the number of inductees have to go up. If anything the number of inductees seems to be going down. So the standards will go (and are already going) up.

Nick's best bet is a Dwight Evans type career, and Dwight Evans fell off the ballot in about 14 seconds.

Yeah but Jim Rice made it in and Dwight Evans had a better career. So it is more than what you do on the field that matters. It is whether the sports writers think you are a good player. I have said take it away from sports writers as they don't know a thing about baseball. I think the average fan would do better than they do in picking hall of fame inductees.

[ScottieBaseball]

This is true, but I find him to be a pretty insightful analyst. He seems pretty well versed in all areas of the game imo.

I think Bordick gets better with every game, too. Hopefully he lets Tom Davis, Jim Hunter, and Rick Dempsey shill for the O's like the homers they are and he continues to offer up good insight. I'd love to see MASN bring Ben McDonald in more, too. I think he's missing his calling...he was awesome last year...really intelligent, insightful commentary.

[atomic]

It'd be hard to put in a player who has been flat out average during his career so far with the exception of 2008.

How can you say these numbers are average from a gold glove winner:

.295 .362 .450 .813

Those are definitely well above average.

[pollaxt]

A bit. Matt Weiters is the best catcher in the majors over the past few years. Ryan Flaherty will be one of the best power hitting second baseman next year.

"...in the game today."

[atomic]

God, he was so good. So fun to listen to; I was really excited at the proposition of him being in what is now Bordy's role. I was really bummed when he took a position elsewhere (forget where at the moment). But man was he good.

Ben Mcdonald is the worst. Plus he sounds like a redneck. Well actually Cal Ripken is the worst. Seeing Beltre play the last two games really makes me hate those comments about him being better than Brooksie. Beltre doesn't compare to Longoria much alone the best there ever was.

[calmunderfire]

How can you say these numbers are average from a gold glove winner:

.295 .362 .450 .813

Those are definitely well above average.

Because Markakis plays sub par defense at a corner outfield spot. Negative positional value. Not a lot of power. His best asset is his contact hitting. Although I'd call that the most important tool in baseball it's not enough alone to get Markakis into the hall of fame. He's also been in decline prematurely for some unknown reason. And as he moves into his 30s this discussion will look stupid. Markakis' true talent level right now is about a 2 WAR player.

I think Markakis should look to the Orioles HOF and not the baseball HOF.

[atomic]

Wow, well we'll agree to disagree. People can't control their accent, friend. And I thought that was what made him fun to listen to, because at first you think he'll be a country bumpkin, but turns out he's crazy knowledgeable. And that made him unique.

I didn't think he did a good job with his commentary. People can't help their accent and I can't help that it annoys me. He was as bad as the Nationals crew. I think that had a former Oriole on it as well.

[atomic]

Because Markakis plays sub par defense at a corner outfield spot. Negative positional value. Not a lot of power. His best asset is his contact hitting. Although I'd call that the most important tool in baseball it's not enough alone to get Markakis into the hall of fame. He's also been in decline prematurely for some unknown reason. And as he moves into his 30s this discussion will look stupid. Markakis' true talent level right now is about a 2 WAR player.

I think Markakis should look to the Orioles HOF and not the baseball HOF.

Markakis isn't negative defensive outfielder. He keeps guys from going for the extra base with his stellar arm and ability to play balls off the wall. He might not have the range of some guys but he is definitely above average for right field.

[calmunderfire]

Markakis isn't negative defensive outfielder. He keeps guys from going for the extra base with his stellar arm and ability to play balls off the wall. He might not have the range of some guys but he is definitely above average for right field.

The arm isn't what it once was. His range is poor. Balls that should be outs don't get turned into outs. Since 2009 Markakis is -18 runs in the field and has amassed a lot of negative dWAR in the field.

[ledzepp8]

I think Bordick gets better with every game, too. Hopefully he lets Tom Davis, Jim Hunter, and Rick Dempsey shill for the O's like the homers they are and he continues to offer up good insight. I'd love to see MASN bring Ben McDonald in more, too. I think he's missing his calling...he was awesome last year...really intelligent, insightful commentary.

Yeah I like listening to Bordick as well. I don't get all of the crap that he gets on here. People forget that he's still new to this role and it's probably hard to be impartial at first when you're calling for a team you played for. I'm sure he'll get better but he's still now Davis, Hunter, or Dempsey...those are homers.