Eff this ish

[VeveJones007]

Its December 4. If this is all that has happened by February 4, then I will worry.

But I tend not to worry too much about this stuff anyway.

Edited for emphasis. I'm long past overreacting simply because I choose to...and that's exactly what 80% of the people in this thread are doing. I understand what the history is, but people need to get off the jump to conclusions mat. Let's wait and see where this goes before reacting. What happened to the people who were concerned that the O's would actually pay Johnson 10+ million? I thought just about everyone was on board with not paying Johnson.

[SilentJames]

I refuse to get cracked over Ellisbury, its a terrible deal and makes no sense for the Yankees. Who cares, "if they are doing something." If I'm bored on a Saturday night I don't look at the methheads in the alley and think, "well they are doing something!"

The Orioles need to make moves that make sense for them to make. Ellisbury may have made sense - but not the deal he got. Salty really doesn't make sense for the Orioles.

Now, if you want to argue how much sense the JJ move made, that's all well and good. And we can talk about what they really need to do, or crazy things they could do. But these early high-profile moves don't really have much impact on the Orioles because they were over guys the team wasn't really shopping for and they were paid incredibly stupid money.

[weams]

I refuse to get cracked over Ellisbury, its a terrible deal and makes no sense for the Yankees. Who cares, "if they are doing something." If I'm bored on a Saturday night I don't look at the methheads in the alley and think, "well they are doing something!"

The Orioles need to make moves that make sense for them to make. Ellisbury may have made sense - but not the deal he got. Salty really doesn't make sense for the Orioles.

Now, if you want to argue how much sense the JJ move made, that's all well and good. And we can talk about what they really need to do, or crazy things they could do. But these early high-profile moves don't really have much impact on the Orioles because they were over guys the team wasn't really shopping for and they were paid incredibly stupid money.

Jacoby Elsbury got the third largest outfielder contract of ALL TIME. Jacoby. Elsbury.

[SilentJames]

Typically I'm right there with you, but based on historical ways we handle business, we won't see much between now and Opening Day to excite anyone.

Yeah, and the last two years these "not exciting moves" has lead to two years of playoff-contention-level teams. The exciting moves rarely seem to payoff. I mean honestly, think about it.

Fielder - not on Tigers anymore

The Angels

The Jays

Tex

The Marlins

The Yankees did something exciting, but it probably means they will have to get rid of the only GOOD outfielder they have in Gardner.

[TiredofLosing20]

Jacoby Elsbury got the third largest outfielder contract of ALL TIME. Jacoby. Elsbury.

Worth every penny..

Just like Carl Crawford..

[Going Underground]

Those four words in a well-written post sums up what everyone should be feeling.... the Marlins THE MARLINS!!! signed Salty! THE MARLINS!! We may have hit a low folks.... Did I say THE MARLINS!!!

They have won more World Series then the Orioles in the lsast 25 years.

[Ommaculate]

Worth every penny..

Just like Carl Crawford..

One twisted knee away from disaster for the Yankees.

[Dipper9]

Yeah, and the last two years these "not exciting moves" has lead to two years of playoff-contention-level teams. The exciting moves rarely seem to payoff. I mean honestly, think about it.

Fielder - not on Tigers anymore

The Angels

The Jays

Tex

The Marlins

The Yankees did something exciting, but it probably means they will have to get rid of the only GOOD outfielder they have in Gardner.

I've been here a long time James, and never have I been an advocate for the big free agent signing. Well, I can't say never. I wanted a few, such as Tex. When I say exciting moves, I mean something to make this team better. Not salary dumping. Not signing Quad A depth. I'm talking signing legit major leaguers where we don't have to say "If A and B and C go right, this guy COULD be decent!"

[SilentJames]

I've been here a long time James, and never have I been an advocate for the big free agent signing. Well, I can't say never. I wanted a few, such as Tex. When I say exciting moves, I mean something to make this team better. Not salary dumping. Not signing Quad A depth. I'm talking signing legit major leaguers where we don't have to say "If A and B and C go right, this guy COULD be decent!"

Yeah I get that, and I agree with you. But the conceit of this thread is "these guys are doing X, why aren't we?" And I can never get behind that. I don't care if the Marlins signed Salty - good for them. I don't care if my neighbor gets a new 80" TV. I don't need it, I don't care.

The Orioles need to make moves, but there is a lot of time for those moves to be made and the moves that have been made currently this offseason really don't hamper the Orioles' ability to make moves.

Therefore, I am really not concerned about this stuff.

[Going Underground]

Yeah, and the last two years these "not exciting moves" has lead to two years of playoff-contention-level teams. The exciting moves rarely seem to payoff. I mean honestly, think about it.

Fielder - not on Tigers anymore

The Angels

The Jays

Tex

The Marlins

The Yankees did something exciting, but it probably means they will have to get rid of the only GOOD outfielder they have in Gardner.

The Tigers made the playoffs. Braves spent money and made the playoffs. Cardinals upped their payroll and made the playoffs. Red Sox with the second highest payroll made the playoffs. Mets,Cubs,Astros lowered payroll and had lousy years. We can site examples both ways on this.

[TiredofLosing20]

One twisted knee away from disaster for the Yankees.

One twisted knee away from disaster if the Orioles had signed him a speed bump for the Yankees. And really isn't that the point.

[weams]

This thread is why I hate this board sometimes. Everyone is always so negative. The Orioles organization is still in a MUCH better position than they were several years ago with a steadily improving minor league system and a solid core of players for the next 3-4 years. Change doesn't just happen overnight. We have a very good GM and manager, and I'm sure we'll compete at least for the next few years regardless of the current payroll.

This board is often accused of being the home of the Kool Aid Kids.

[Ommaculate]

This morning on the local radio they said "Manager Buck Showalter must not be happy" about the trade.

[Moose Milligan]

What did you expect?

I know, I know...it's still frustrating. I don't expect anything, really. But damn, I'd like to be surprised one of these days.

You said it yourself...these are bad contracts that these teams are going to regret. The path for us to compete is the Tampa model. We need a constant pipeline of talent which we do not really have at the moment. That means building around two or three core players, hoarding draft picks, and trading veterans when they get to be too expensive. Don't forget, that is how we got back into contention--we traded Bedard and Koji and got great returns that paid off.

In the free agent market, that means we make a few shrewd investments in role player types. IF we get Mujica, Mujica plus Weeks and a few million dollars to spare would be a great outcome for losing JJ. If MikeyIce is right, that is DD's strategy, and I think it is sound. Now if we don't get Mujica or somebody comparable, then JJ is a pure salary dump and I can see being upset. Unfortunately JJ's stock was low, so we can't expect to get a Wil Myers/Adam Jones.

Wieters is another possibility to turn into prospects, but like JJ his stock is low. The question is who is our next Bedard/Shields, somebody that other teams will pay a premium to get. It may be Chen, or Norris if he has a strong season. Regardless, we can't overvalue our players and just keep them until they walk.

The reality is we cannot compete in the free agency market. We will get outspent by teams like NYY, LAD, and LAA, and they will be able to get better free agents than us. But that is now how we got competitive, and it is not a sustainable strategy for us to stay competitive.

All of this will pay off if we can extend CD and Manny. CD, Manny, and AJ are a very solid core that will enable us to compete for years to come.

I agree, but we can spend more than Tampa. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be pass the Yankees in payroll, but we don't have to be cheap either.

The issue here is that we're nowhere close to the Tampa model in terms of scouting, development and smart signings.

Yes it is getting old. Maybe as old as some complaining about

non moves by the O's on December 4th. I didnt want Salty on

the O's. I don't want a 38 year old Beltran nor do I believe

Morenau is worth what he might get or did get.

What if the O's use their money to resign Davis and Matt?

Would you be happy with that? Sorry I don't meAn to bust on

you at all. I want them to improve too. At my age I have

found that complaining doesn't change anything. O's fans are

stuck with Angelos. But it is early so I am hoping DD will be

able to get some deals done to help the O's. IMO

Complaining doesn't change anything, but if no one complained about anything then Orioleshangout.com would be the most boring message board on earth. In case you haven't been paying attention, complaining is mostly what this team has given us to do over the past few decades.

I'm not that concerned about the payroll. In fact, I'd prefer to have a good, fiscally responsible team to a mercenary laden high payroll team. However, the real problem I have is that the Orioles refuse to pick a street. If you are going to operate with a smallish payroll budget then you need to fully commit to developing your own talent and cost controlling your major league roster. The Orioles don't do either very well which is why we are in this current predicament. They seem to be reluctant to do ANYTHING well and instead commit to mediocrity and pray for 2012 type miracles.

Best post in the thread, IMO. As I said, while 2012 was a blast, it probably was one of the worst things that could have happened. I get the feeling that ownership and DD felt that the team had "arrived" and not much needed to be done in order to secure more similar seasons ahead. Last offseason was proof of that.

It's not so much that there are big shiny FA's and high priced talent that have moved off the board, it's the fact that the Orioles haven't done anything smart. They haven't done anything logical. And if this were any other team I probably wouldn't be complaining.

But this is the Orioles, they never jump out ahead on anything. They never strike first. They hardly ever make a smart move that no one saw coming. It's always sitting around on the sidelines, watching other teams make moves and close deals. How many damn reports do we have to read where the Orioles apparently are one of the teams in the hunt for a player or are close to making a trade only to find out that it didn't happen and we weren't close?

I know I made a post after the WS about not expecting anything and I still don't. It's just frustrating to see a team sit back on its heels and think that a minor move here and a minor move there is all we need. This type of offseason sure smells familiar.

All I'm saying is, it'd be nice to be surprised for once.

[Three Run Homer]

It's not so much that there are big shiny FA's and high priced talent that have moved off the board, it's the fact that the Orioles haven't done anything smart. They haven't done anything logical. And if this were any other team I probably wouldn't be complaining.

But this is the Orioles, they never jump out ahead on anything. They never strike first. They hardly ever make a smart move that no one saw coming. It's always sitting around on the sidelines, watching other teams make moves and close deals. How many damn reports do we have to read where the Orioles apparently are one of the teams in the hunt for a player or are close to making a trade only to find out that it didn't happen and we weren't close?

Signing Danny Valencia, Miguel Gonzalez and Nate McLouth off the scrap heap...wouldn't you say those turned out to be pretty smart moves?

Wei Yin Chen took some real money to sign, but given the price we paid, I'd say that move has turned out pretty well, wouldn't you?

Duquette has yet to make a splashy free agent signing since he came here, but if nothing else you have to admit that he's been able to pull off moves under the radar that have paid off very well. Clearly he's got his work cut out for him between now and opening day, but hasn't he earned some patience and benefit of the doubt?