190 pitches!! Are you kidding me?

[Billy Button]

I just watched the Reds beat the Cubs 1-0 in ten innings from a 1965 game on Youtube. The Reds' starting pitcher Jim Maloney threw a ten-inning no hitter. The dude threw damn near 190 pitches!! Holy crap!

[Can_of_corn]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/tomohiro-anraku-772-pitches-koshien-fina/

A second-year student at Saibi High (Ehime Prefecture), Anraku had thrown a 134-pitch complete game yesterday and another 138-pitch complete game victory on Monday. The Monday start came on one day of rest after he had thrown a 159-pitch complete game on Saturday and 232 pitches over a 13-inning complete game four days before that on Tuesday, March 26.

Anraku left after throwing 109 pitches, bringing him to 381 pitches in three days and 772 pitches in nine days for the entire tournament

He was 16.

[Billy Button]

I think this whole pitch count thing is a crock. Always did.

[Tx Oriole]

I think this whole pitch count thing is a crock. Always did.

Crock? Why?

[Can_of_corn]

I think this whole pitch count thing is a crock. Always did.

You would.

Read the whole article I posted.

At the start of Spring Koshien, the 6-foot-1, 185-pound Anraku showed incredible talent, with a fastball that touched 94 mph, flashes of a future above-average breaking ball, along with good flexibility and coordination. Today, his fastball sat at 78-85 mph and topped out at 88

[Malike]

Tanaka just threw 160 in last start I believe, and to cap it off, they had him pitch the 9th inning the following day. Might as well abuse him before he leaves for the states.

[Malike]

You would.

Read the whole article I posted.

New article dated in August of 2013 saying hes throwing 98 after a 232 pitch 13 inning shutout. I guess he's back.

[Can_of_corn]

New article dated in August of 2013 saying hes throwing 98 after a 232 pitch 13 inning shutout. I guess he's back.

They still got time to break him.

Darvish's father famously wouldn't let him be abused in such a manner.

[Malike]

They still got time to break him.

Darvish's father famously wouldn't let him be abused in such a manner.

Yeah, his father lacked the insane amount of pride required to allow your son to get abused like that. Good on him.

[Il BuonO]

Dr. Andrews says the pitch limit for 17 year old is 105 pitches. I'm pretty sure that ML pitchers can throw above that limit. Managers and coaches get into trouble when they either totally disregard the guidelines the pitch count numbers as set out by Andrews and Glenn Fleisig of ASMI who did the research.

http://www.theoleballgame.com/pitch-count-restrictions-recommended.html

"....pitch counts shouldn?t be rules, they should be guidelines to give you a feel for if he has had a high workload or not. The rule should be that when a pitcher has arm fatigue, he should come out. So when he has arm fatigue, he should not pitch again until the fatigue is gone."

And again....

BL: So without commenting on any specific team or pitcher, would you say that a team that puts hard innings limits in place is just sort of going overboard with risk aversion or covering their own ass? I mean, I?m sure they must base it on some sort of research, but maybe they?re not looking at the right research.

GF: Yeah. I do say that. If a major-league team or minor-league team has a hard pitch count across their whole organization, they can do better than that. They should be using?because they have professional coaches throughout their major and minor leagues, and a professional medical staff?they should be using pitch counts as a feel, as a guideline...

http://deadspin.com/yu-darvishs-arm-is-not-a-gun-why-hard-pitch-count-lim-508279020

[Can_of_corn]

Dr. Andrews says the pitch limit for 17 year old is 105 pitches. I'm pretty sure that ML pitchers can throw above that limit. Managers and coaches get into trouble when they either totally disregard the guidelines the pitch count numbers as set out by Andrews and Glenn Fleisig of ASMI who did the research.

http://www.theoleballgame.com/pitch-count-restrictions-recommended.html

"....pitch counts shouldn?t be rules, they should be guidelines to give you a feel for if he has had a high workload or not. The rule should be that when a pitcher has arm fatigue, he should come out. So when he has arm fatigue, he should not pitch again until the fatigue is gone."

And again....

BL: So without commenting on any specific team or pitcher, would you say that a team that puts hard innings limits in place is just sort of going overboard with risk aversion or covering their own ass? I mean, I?m sure they must base it on some sort of research, but maybe they?re not looking at the right research.

GF: Yeah. I do say that. If a major-league team or minor-league team has a hard pitch count across their whole organization, they can do better than that. They should be using?because they have professional coaches throughout their major and minor leagues, and a professional medical staff?they should be using pitch counts as a feel, as a guideline...

http://deadspin.com/yu-darvishs-arm-is-not-a-gun-why-hard-pitch-count-lim-508279020

I think a lot of the reason pitchers are pulled is the risk of lowered performance rather then the injury risk.

[Il BuonO]

I think a lot of the reason pitchers are pulled is the risk of lowered performance rather then the injury risk.

Really? How many times during game threads did you and I ask why Buck was taking Tillman out when he had seemingly just had his best inning? I feel there are too many times when a guys size, history, stamina are not taken into account. Tillman should not be on the same static pitch count guideline as Chen or Gonzalez.

[Can_of_corn]

Really? How many times during game threads did you and I ask why Buck was taking Tillman out when he had seemingly just had his best inning? I feel there are too many times when a guys size, history, stamina are not taken into account. Tillman should not be on the same static pitch count guideline as Chen or Gonzalez.

I wasn't talking specifically about Buck and Tillman when I made that comment.

I do think Buck "babied" Tillman.

I do think that overall, throughout MLB, that a lot of times guys get pulled because of diminished stuff and the amount of lineup turnover that has occurred (Guy gets pulled when the top of the order gets it's fourth at bat).

Tillman's stuff was better after 100 pitches then it was in the first inning.

[Il BuonO]

I wasn't talking specifically about Buck and Tillman when I made that comment.

I do think Buck "babied" Tillman.

I do think that overall, throughout MLB, that a lot of times guys get pulled because of diminished stuff and the amount of lineup turnover that has occurred (Guy gets pulled when the top of the order gets it's fourth at bat).

Tillman's stuff was better after 100 pitches then it was in the first inning.

I know you weren't. Specifically to the 4th AB, though, I'll have to dig it up but there was an article last year stating that by the 4th AB pitchers numbers were improved. They are diminished progressively one through three. The thinking was that by the 4th AB if the pitcher is having a good night he has superior stuff, thus the decline in numbers for that AB.

[Can_of_corn]

I know you weren't. Specifically to the 4th AB, though, I'll have to dig it up but there was an article last year stating that by the 4th AB pitchers numbers were improved. They are diminished progressively one through three. The thinking was that by the 4th AB if the pitcher is having a good night he has superior stuff, thus the decline in numbers for that AB.

Well the guys without superior stuff gets pulled before the 4th at bat. Higher percentage of quality pitchers providing the data points.