Cast your 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot (Update: Maddux, Glavine, Thomas Elected)

[Rene88]

First off, kudos to Frobby for starting this thread. Something other than inaction and debating players we will never sign, a nice distraction.

I love how people are debating leaving off Bonds and Clemens. Think for yourself people. They are jerkoffs but absolutely 2 of the best to play the game. Lots of cheaters, racists already in the hall. I love how sports journalists try to play god. HOF is reserved for the best. IMO Jack Morris was a helluva ballplayer, so was Tim Raines, but not HOF material.

My votes:

Bonds

Clemens

Raffy (sure, he might have done roids, some homers were really doubles, but did you see this guy's swing? He would have gotten 3k hits regardless, one of the real sh*t jobs done to him IMO)

Lee Smith (need I remind you, Bruce Sutter made the HOF)

Piazza

Biggio

Mussina

Glavine

Maddux

Big Hurt

J.T. Snow (I kid...)

If I could get 11, Bagwell would be my 11th.

Again, thanks for the good thread.

[El Gordo]

Not a fan of Bonds and Clemens, but they were great players with or without PED's. My take on PED's, is it was part of an era, just like the lively ball. small parks, high pitcher's mounds, greenies, etc. were all parts of other era's. I see no reason to exclude players who performed well in the PED era, any more than I would exclude Mays or Aaron, because they used greenies, or Gibson because he had the advantage of the higher mound and larger strike zone, or Maddux and Glavine, because the umps gave them pitches 6 inches off the plate. If 300 W's is still the bench mark for SP, then there will never be another SP to make the HOF. I like the idea that the HOF is a museum, not a Cathedral. I'd vote Bagwell in over Schilling.

[MikeAD]

You could site character issues, after all you didn't put that Cobb fellow in.

Um Cobb is an option? And since when has character ever mattered in the Hall of Fame, which honors the best players?

[El Gordo]

Um Cobb is an option? And since when has character ever mattered in the Hall of Fame, which honors the best players?

Read the voting guidelines, it's there. Why do you think Robby Alomar didn't get in the first year?

[Rene88]

Not a fan of Bonds and Clemens, but they were great players with or without PED's. My take on PED's, is it was part of an era, just like the lively ball. small parks, high pitcher's mounds, greenies, etc. were all parts of other era's. I see no reason to exclude players who performed well in the PED era, any more than I would exclude Mays or Aaron, because they used greenies, or Gibson because he had the advantage of the higher mound and larger strike zone, or Maddux and Glavine, because the umps gave them pitches 6 inches off the plate. If 300 W's is still the bench mark for SP, then there will never be another SP to make the HOF. I like the idea that the HOF is a museum, not a Cathedral. I'd vote Bagwell in over Schilling.

Terrific post sir. Well said.

[ShaneDawg85]

Serious question, but if Jack Morris had pitched more or less exactly as he did throughout his career, but had gotten to 300 wins in the end, is it safe to say he would already be in the Hall of Fame? Because as others have said, 300 wins still means something to voters, it's why Glavine will get in (although he was good enough in his own right), and it's one of the arguments used against similar cases in Jim Kaat and Tommy John, and will likely be used against Mussina and Schilling among others, although in my book Mussina and Schilling are Hall worthy while Kaat and John were not.

[crissfan172]

Bagwell, Raines, and Martinez replace Glavine, Morris, and Schilling to get to my ten.

[ShaneDawg85]

Some guys garner more disagreement in others, but I think we can all agree on one thing: Greg Maddux deserves to be a unanimous selection. Frankly, any voter who doesn't vote for him on the first ballot needs to be outed and forced to explain, no matter how empirical or irrational their position, how they could justify keeping out the greatest pitcher of a generation out of the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

[bagman]

Listening to MLB on XM tonight to Tony Larussa make a case for Alan Trammel and Jack Morris. Don't remember who was hosting the show but he had Larussa recount a story he had told about enjoying watching Trammel during fielding practice how perfect his form was and then taking that into the game. And he mentioned that Sparky would bat him anywhere in the lineup and he always produced. For Morris he brought up that he pitched in an AL hitters park, wanted to finish games (175 complete games) so would pitch to hitters to conserve pitches which probably inflated his ERA and effect his SO rate, the biggest knock on Morris. Of course he emphasized his big game performance.

He also said the sabermetric people need to look at more than just the numbers, and he wasn't discounting the importance of the numbers just that it is not the only thing that should be considered. He finished the interview by saying he would give up his HOF spot if it meant both of them getting in.

I didn't realize Morris had 175 CG in 527 GS, as comparison:

Mussina - 536 GS, 57 CG

Shilling - 436 GS, 83 CG

Glavine - 682 GS, 56 CG

Maddux - 740 GS, 109 CG

I know CG are not everything but I found it interesting and wonder how that effected his ERA and SO rate.

[Frobby]

Some guys garner more disagreement in others, but I think we can all agree on one thing: Greg Maddux deserves to be a unanimous selection. Frankly, any voter who doesn't vote for him on the first ballot needs to be outed and forced to explain, no matter how empirical or irrational their position, how they could justify keeping out the greatest pitcher of a generation out of the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

The only reason not to vote for Maddux is if you believe that nobody should get in on the first ballot. That's insane, of course.

[El Gordo]

The only reason not to vote for Maddux is if you believe that nobody should get in on the first ballot. That's insane, of course.

I believe the reason given by the idiot who didn't vote for him was that he couldn't vote for anyone who played during the PED era and he was never voting for the HOF again. BTW great thread Frobby. Also it looks like the OH would only vote Maddux and Glavine to the HOF, so far. What gives with that?

[pdiddy]

Maddux, Glavine, Morris and Trammel. Morris and Trammel aren't getting in but they deserve some love somewhere. Morris would get in if it was the Pro Football HOF for the same reason that Namath and Swann are in. The metrics say Morris and Trammel are no's but they were $.

I get the Clemens and Bonds were good enough before the juice argument, but I don't buy the greenies vs roids and HGH argument. It's like comparing marijuana to crystal meth.

[OrangeJerseys]

Biggio, Glavine, Maddux, Morris, Piazza, and Thomas.

Bonds and Clemens are cheaters, Schilling isn't good enough, and I don't want to spend any time thinking about Mussina. My unrealistic resentment of him won't let me.

[crissfan172]

I believe the reason given by the idiot who didn't vote for him was that he couldn't vote for anyone who played during the PED era and he was never voting for the HOF again. BTW great thread Frobby. Also it looks like the OH would only vote Maddux and Glavine to the HOF, so far. What gives with that?

...which is sad considering Glavine is probably the 4th best pitcher listed on the poll. People just obsess over that 300 W milestone, though. :rolleyestf:

[scOtt]

I'm surprised Schilling isn't getting more love. Won Championships in two different places, and an integral part in both. Beyond integral in Boston...