How long will Buck stick with Jim Presley?

[Reboulet'sStache]

I'm not denying that there are mitigating factors that might depress a team's runs scored. I'm saying that in the end, it doesn't really matter when comparing runs scored. We can use sabermetrics to argue that Team A was better offensively than Team B, even though Team A didn't score as many runs. In the grand scheme of things, that doesn't matter. Do you want the team that scores more runs or do you want the team that was better offensively because of certain advanced stats?

They aren't really advanced stats though. I want the Orioles to field the best team, and the best approach, that allows them to score the most runs possible, independent of all other factors (park, competition, climate, injuries, etc.). Because that is what will allow the Orioles to be most successful. But to know if that is being done, I need something that accounts for, or at least attempts to account for, those other factors. I don't want a team that ranks 6th in runs playing at Camden, but could rank 1st in runs playing at Camden, it they had a different approach. I want some way of being able to tell how successful the approach and philosophy and current state of the organization is in of itself. That way I know if we are doing everything we can to put the most successful product on the field. Simply looking at "runs" doesn't do that. And in the end, that matters, significantly. You think it has no real world application, because in the end, you're in Camden, you're in Coors. But if our approach puts us at a disadvantage relative to other teams, then how does that help us when we play those teams in Camden or Coors?

[weams]

They aren't really advanced stats though. I want the Orioles to field the best team' date=' and the best approach, that allows them to score the most runs possible, independent of all other factors (park, competition, climate, injuries, etc.). Because that is what will allow the Orioles to be most successful. But to know if that is being done, I need something that accounts for, or at least attempts to account for, those other factors. I don't want a team that ranks 6th in runs playing at Camden, but could rank 1st in runs playing at Camden, it they had a different approach. I want some way of being able to tell how successful the approach and philosophy and current state of the organization is in of itself. That way I know if we are doing everything we can to put the most successful product on the field. Simply looking at "runs" doesn't do that. And in the end, that matters, significantly. You think it has no real world application, because in the end, you're in Camden, you're in Coors. But if our approach puts us at a disadvantage relative to other teams, then how does that help us when we play those teams in Camden or Coors?[/quote']

We were almost to the World Series. You over-complicate things.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I want this one, since they are the better offensive club. The Rockies scored a lot more runs than the Orioles this year... you wanted that offense instead?

It would be like if Marshall finished the college football season undefeated and Alabama finished 11-1, you'd rather have Marshall's team in the championship game because 12-0 is all that matters. You have to look at advanced factors, like strength of schedule, to see who truly deserves to be in the championship. To ignore such advanced factors and just focus on the raw end number seems odd.

[waroriole]

It would be like if Marshall finished the college football season undefeated and Alabama finished 11-1' date=' you'd rather have Marshall's team in the championship game because 12-0 is all that matters. You have to look at advanced factors, like strength of schedule, to see who truly deserves to be in the championship. To ignore such advanced factors and just focus on the raw end number seems odd.[/quote']

Well, that's silly. Bama has another loss coming in the Iron Bowl.

[Reboulet'sStache]

We were almost to the World Series. You over-complicate things.

I'm not making any statement about the Orioles per se. For all I know, accounting for the advanced stats will show the O's have the best offense in baseball this year. I'm merely arguing in favor of the merits of such advanced factors. Nothing to do with the actual Orioles offense this year.

[Reboulet'sStache]

Well, that's silly. Bama has another loss coming in the Iron Bowl.

War Eagle!!!!!

[El Gordo]

They aren't really advanced stats though. I want the Orioles to field the best team' date=' and the best approach, that allows them to score the most runs possible, independent of all other factors (park, competition, climate, injuries, etc.). Because that is what will allow the Orioles to be most successful. But to know if that is being done, I need something that accounts for, or at least attempts to account for, those other factors. I don't want a team that ranks 6th in runs playing at Camden, but could rank 1st in runs playing at Camden, it they had a different approach. I want some way of being able to tell how successful the approach and philosophy and current state of the organization is in of itself. That way I know if we are doing everything we can to put the most successful product on the field. Simply looking at "runs" doesn't do that. And in the end, that matters, significantly. You think it has no real world application, because in the end, you're in Camden, you're in Coors. But if our approach puts us at a disadvantage relative to other teams, then how does that help us when we play those teams in Camden or Coors?[/quote']If you want the team to have a different approach, you don't do that by changing the hitting coach you do it by changing the players. In the case of the O's the only players you'd keep would be Pearce, Markakis, DeAza, Cruz and Machado.

[benefactor]

Posted in wrong thread. Oops.

[Reboulet'sStache]

If you want the team to have a different approach, you don't do that by changing the hitting coach you do it by changing the players. In the case of the O's the only players you'd keep would be Pearce, Markakis, DeAza, Cruz and Machado.

I'm not sure I want them team to have a different approach. I'm not arguing in favor or anything except the validity of trying to account for other factors in order to gain a better understanding of who had the best offenses in baseball.

[El Gordo]

I'm not sure I want them team to have a different approach. I'm not arguing in favor or anything except the validity of trying to account for other factors in order to gain a better understanding of who had the best offenses in baseball.

The point I am trying to make is you don't get the leopard to change it's spots when you get to the ML level. You try to maximize it's strengths and minimize it's weaknesses.

[Reboulet'sStache]

The point I am trying to make is you don't get the leopard to change it's spots when you get to the ML level. You try to maximize it's strengths and minimize it's weaknesses.

Right, I said that a few pages ago. I'm not arguing about changing the current player's approach, changing the current players, or the hitting approach. I'm just strictly advocating the merits behind accounting for various factors when trying to objectively look at offenses or defenses or pitching.

[weams]

Right' date=' I said that a few pages ago. I'm not arguing about changing the current player's approach, changing the current players, or the hitting approach. I'm just strictly advocating the merits behind accounting for various factors when trying to objectively look at offenses or defenses or pitching.[/quote']

I can understand your dilemma.

[ledzepp8]

They aren't really advanced stats though. I want the Orioles to field the best team' date=' and the best approach, that allows them to score the most runs possible, independent of all other factors (park, competition, climate, injuries, etc.). Because that is what will allow the Orioles to be most successful. But to know if that is being done, I need something that accounts for, or at least attempts to account for, those other factors. I don't want a team that ranks 6th in runs playing at Camden, but could rank 1st in runs playing at Camden, it they had a different approach. I want some way of being able to tell how successful the approach and philosophy and current state of the organization is in of itself. That way I know if we are doing everything we can to put the most successful product on the field. Simply looking at "runs" doesn't do that. And in the end, that matters, significantly. You think it has no real world application, because in the end, you're in Camden, you're in Coors. But if our approach puts us at a disadvantage relative to other teams, then how does that help us when we play those teams in Camden or Coors?[/quote']

I'm not saying you shouldn't look at those other factors when building your team and offensive approach. I'm saying that when comparing to other teams they don't really matter, all that matters is runs scored when you get down to it. Certain stats might say that another team is better than the Orioles but that doesn't really mean much to me if they didn't score as many runs.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm not saying you shouldn't look at those other factors when building your team and offensive approach. I'm saying that when comparing to other teams they don't really matter, all that matters is runs scored when you get down to it. Certain stats might say that another team is better than the Orioles but that doesn't really mean much to me if they didn't score as many runs.

Scoring runs and allowing runs matter equally. if you're scoring runs because of a favorable run environment, you're most likely allowing runs due to that same environment. They should both be accounted for. It does matter in that context.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I'm not saying you shouldn't look at those other factors when building your team and offensive approach. I'm saying that when comparing to other teams they don't really matter, all that matters is runs scored when you get down to it. Certain stats might say that another team is better than the Orioles but that doesn't really mean much to me if they didn't score as many runs.

But by that logic, what does it matter if they did score more runs? All one really want is an offense that outscores the other team on most nights. Where they rank in total runs compared to the rest of the teams is largely irrelevant within that context.