What does Nick's departure say to the other players who we may want to retain?

[Going Underground]

The Oriole team has many question marks. Wieters and Machado coming off injuries. Who is the real Chris Davis? Who will play left field and RF and DH? Is Schoop a major league hitter. I think DD knows he will have to shore up some of the positions. You don't want to go into the season with question marks at too many positions.

[Frobby]

Agreed. Though not so much if Markakis has an OPS of .650 in Atlanta.

Also true. Personally, I am going to refrain from starting any threads during the 2015 season that compare how Nick is doing in Atlanta with how the Orioles' RFers are doing. This was a four-year decision and it will be a long time before we know how the whole thing shook out. You know how I felt on the topic but now I'm just rooting for Pearce, Lough, de Aza, Alvarez or whoever else we acquire to do a good job, and I'll be rooting for Nick to do well in Atlanta as well.

[Guest]

It's saying that the Orioles got a G.M that won't overpay for a player that is going downhill fast.

[Guest rochester]

I'm not going to speculate on it. If there was nothing more to this than Nick took the deal that was $1 mm/yr higher, then I agree his actions are inconsistent with what he said this spring. But there seem to have been some other bumps in the road during these negotiations that may have influenced his decision. For example, it may have ticked him off if they originally offered a four year deal, then backed off and went to three, and only went back to four when they realized he had been offered that by the Braves. I don't know that this is what occurred, I'm just giving an example of the type of thing that could have weighed into Nick's decision to leave other than the $1 mm/yr. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Nick's gone, and now DD needs to figure out how he wants to construct his roster and spend his budget without Nick.

Rumors will run rampant - how much was offered, how much was demanded, MRIs, how much extra lunch money, etc. I can't even speculate what happened in the negotiations and, even what a Rosenthal says is only speculation. Biases form - if you wanted Nick back at all cost then the O's made the wrong move and vice versa. I really don't believe either side is at fault - and even if the extra $1M/yr or four instead of three years were important enough for Nick and his family then I respect the decision, but I have no clue.

I still believe that the inordinate amount of FA's coming down the pike has something to do with it. I also understand the age "issues" but it seems ironic that the speculation is both Cruz and Nick wanted four years and (possibly) the O's ended up not wanting to go past three. We have a lot of younger guys that the $25M a year can help tie up before they become FA's. For example, they extended AJones early for a contract that pays him $14.25M/yr through 2018. I think that most believe that this is a good deal - there was a certain amount of risk on both sides. Would it make sense saving the Nick/Cruz money to put towards signing Matt W. or Manny, or Gausman, or put it towards a combination of them? If so, then I believe many here will be praising for DD making the incredibly difficult decision to let both go now so the money can be used for longer term considerations.

Regarding Nick - would have loved to see him stay but on an emotional level. I do not agree with the whole "team is falling apart" theory. Actually, I thought there was a much worse reaction when JJ was dumped last year. Remember, no matter what took place, Nick was offered a generous amount.

[hoosiers]

The actual sequence is said to have been a firm club offer of 4 years 34 million before free agency. A discussion of four years 40 million after free agency was rejected by the Markakis camp. Then after further thought a firm offer of three years with vesting for a fourth that would have been similar. Then a signing for four 45 in Atlanta. It has been rumored that the Orioles not attaching a pick to Markakis allowed for a real market to develop so that the Oriolea were not forced to resign him at more than they were comfortable with.

If the Os FO did not want Nick back, then I think not making the QO was the correct decision.

[Going Underground]

If the Os FO did not want Nick back, then I think not making the QO was the correct decision.

From the Sun:

The Orioles were confident early in the offseason that they would be able to sign Markakis, so they didn't make him a qualifying offer. There also was some concern that he would take the qualifying offer, which would have been close to the price of his $17.5 million mutual option. Now they won't get anything for him leaving.

Ultimately, it was a business decision. Even though the Orioles appeared close to a four-year deal with Markakis in October, they became increasingly uncomfortable with giving the 31-year-old a fourth year. The club had health concerns about Markakis because of a lingering bulging disk in his neck.

Since missing some time with a herniated disc in his neck in spring training of 2013, Markakis played in 160 games that year and 155 games this past season, so the injury didn’t hinder his ability to be on the field. It also didn’t stop the Braves from pursuing Markakis.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-nick-markakis-departure-hard-to-digest-for-several-reasons-20141204-story.html

[Ohfan67]

If it wasn't all about the money before (and maybe it was), it certainly is now. It's every man for himself next winter when Wieters, Davis, Chen, Norris and O'Day all hit the market. And I'm not holding my breath expecting Manny Machado to sign here long term unless we break the bank to make that happen.

Something ended yesterday. That doesn't mean the Orioles can't continue to be a very good team, but things are going to be different.

I disagree. How many very good to excellent players have taken a discount in the last 10 years to play for the O's? Hardy? The possibility that the O's used medical reports to renege on an offer could be very bad, but not out outbidding the Braves for Markakis is not a problem. FA almost always sign the biggest offer. And that's what happened in this case.

[Can_of_corn]

I disagree. How many very good to excellent players have taken a discount in the last 10 years to play for the O's? Hardy? The possibility that the O's used medical reports to renege on an offer could be very bad, but not out outbidding the Braves for Markakis is not a problem. FA almost always sign the biggest offer. And that's what happened in this case.

I would say that Jones could have done a lot better if he had tested the FA market.

[weams]

This doesn't make a lot of sense. You're saying the O's didn't offer Markakis a QO because they wanted other teams to outbid them? That's a pretty backwards way to approach it.

Offering Markakis the QO may well have depressed the market enough to assure that the O's got him at the price they were comfortable with.

The way I heard it it explained, the Orioles were never comfortable once Nick regected the 4/34 offer. They allowed him to get more with no malice. I may have misunderstood the nuance of it.

[jjnono]

The way I heard it it explained, the Orioles were never comfortable once Nick regected the 4/34 offer. They allowed him to get more with no malice. I may have misunderstood the nuance of it.

"Allowed?" "Malice?" You make it sound like Dan was bestowing on Nick some benevolent grace by letting himself be outbid, or less graciously, by refusing to pay Nick market value...

The truth here is that DD miscalculated Nick's market and he's gone because of it without any compensation.

OR, the truth is that the Os didn't want Nick back... Those are the only conclusions I can come to...

[Ohfan67]

"Allowed?" "Malice?" You make it sound like Dan was bestowing on Nick some benevolent grace by letting himself be outbid, or less graciously, by refusing to pay Nick market value...

The truth here is that DD miscalculated Nick's market and he's gone because of it without any compensation.

The market would have been very different if they offered the QA and there's a high probability the O's would be on the hook for 17 million next year.

[jjnono]

The market would have been very different if they offered the QA and there's a high probability the O's would be on the hook for 17 million next year.

If you look at how many free agents actually accept the QO (very few), I think the likelihood that Nick would have taken it would have been low. But yes, with a draft pick at stake, that market would have been depressed and less amenable to a 4-year deal, IMHO. All of which would have put us at a three year deal, which for $33MM I would have pulled the trigger on in a heartbeat. I think Nick could still have been an O today...

[weams]

If you look at how many free agents actually accept the QO (very few), I think the likelihood that Nick would have taken it would have been low. But yes, with a draft pick at stake, that market would have been depressed and less amenable to a 4-year deal, IMHO. All of which would have put us at a three year deal, which for $33MM I would have pulled the trigger on in a heartbeat. I think Nick could still have been an O today...

No player has ever accepted a qualifying offer. None ever not very few. None.

[srock]

"What does Nick's departure say to the other players who we may want to retain?"

Play better.

If you want a long term deal, negotiate an extension don't test free agency.

[DrungoHazewood]

If it wasn't all about the money before (and maybe it was), it certainly is now. It's every man for himself next winter when Wieters, Davis, Chen, Norris and O'Day all hit the market. And I'm not holding my breath expecting Manny Machado to sign here long term unless we break the bank to make that happen.

Something ended yesterday. That doesn't mean the Orioles can't continue to be a very good team, but things are going to be different.

I know you're upset with losing Markakis, but all it says to me is that players will be paid according to their expected production. If some other team wants to use inflated numbers to lure you away you're not going to get much leverage with Duquette there. And if you want to keep winning on any kind of reasonable budget you simply can't use tenure as a big pot sweetener. What does it say about Nick Markakis when he probably could have signed here for something like 3/30 or 4/40, but he up and moved his family for maybe a 10% increase in his career earnings?