This is A Mess (Mega RANT Thread)

[sportsfan8703]

Unless he joins the Yankees apparently.

Most of Zobrist's value depends on him being a 2nd basemen and putting up those offensive numbers. For us he'd never play 2nd. So we'd be trading for and paying him as a top level 2nd basemen rather than the LF he would be for us.

[theobird]

Worse. Machado, Parades, Schoop, Joseph, Chen, Britton, Roe, O'day are all having career years this year. Norris is the only player having a really terrible year. Even Tillman, Hunter and Matusz have turned their seasons around.

This team doesn't need a back hoe in the offseason it needs a rake. But heading into next year you have a lot of holes.

2 starting pitching spots. At least 1 set up guy, probably 2. LF,RF,1B,DH. We're good at CF,3B,SS,2B and Catcher.

This team needs to sell the players we have now and try and get a SP and a OF. Combine that with what we have in the system and we're around .500. But then we're going to have to spend in FA or make trades to find a SP and 3 corner guys.

This is exactly right. But to miss on the opportunity to get value for Chen, Davis, O'day and Wieters will be a disaster. Good management can build a stronger team from what we have right now, if they make the obvious choice to sell. Maybe you can't get more than the comp pick value for all of them, but you have to take all offers. Chen, O'day and Davis can get a much better return right now on the trade market IMO. Being bullheaded and trading away any prospects that we can put together for a stretch run will not turn out well. Not this year, and certainly not going forward.

[brianod]

Worse. Machado, Parades, Schoop, Joseph, Chen, Britton, Roe, O'day are all having career years this year. Norris is the only player having a really terrible year. Even Tillman, Hunter and Matusz have turned their seasons around.

This team doesn't need a back hoe in the offseason it needs a rake. But heading into next year you have a lot of holes.

2 starting pitching spots. At least 1 set up guy, probably 2. LF,RF,1B,DH. We're good at CF,3B,SS,2B and Catcher.

This team needs to sell the players we have now and try and get a SP and a OF. Combine that with what we have in the system and we're around .500. But then we're going to have to spend in FA or make trades to find a SP and 3 corner guys.

I disagree about catcher. I think Caleb Joseph is a great backup but not a starting catcher.

[scOtt]

[video=youtube;KsaRYMh6c3w]

[SteveO]

I disagree about catcher. I think Caleb Joseph is a great backup but not a starting catcher.

Yea I tend to agree there as well.

If you can get better production out of the LF/RF/!B/DH as a whole, then I think your ok with CJ and either Cleve or say a vet platooning behind the plate.

[DrungoHazewood]

I disagree about catcher. I think Caleb Joseph is a great backup but not a starting catcher.

An average MLB catcher, this year, has a .238, .302, .373 line, good for a .657 OPS. Joseph is almost exactly matching that this year, although his career numbers are just a little bit worse. For the next year or two he should be an okay starter, even if he's not pulling the team forward with that performance.

[Noah Cross]

An average MLB catcher, this year, has a .238, .302, .373 line, good for a .657 OPS. Joseph is almost exactly matching that this year, although his career numbers are just a little bit worse. For the next year or two he should be an okay starter, even if he's not pulling the team forward with that performance.

Is that the average of ALL catchers or just the starters? Obviously makes a big difference.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I disagree about catcher. I think Caleb Joseph is a great backup but not a starting catcher.

I think Joseph would start for about half the teams in MLB this year. Haven't really done the research, just thinking out loud.

[bobmc]

An average MLB catcher, this year, has a .238, .302, .373 line, good for a .657 OPS. Joseph is almost exactly matching that this year, although his career numbers are just a little bit worse. For the next year or two he should be an okay starter, even if he's not pulling the team forward with that performance.

And Big Matt with his "track record"?

[Aristotelian]

If we don't find someone, Clevenger could end up being the starter, as he is lefty and can really hit. Maybe he will be exposed defensively, but they have been saying that they like his defense.

[Stotle]

Also, not that it *needs* to be said, but if "this is Duquette's mess" then it has to be acknowledged that the best record in the AL East from 2012 to present is also his to own. This isn't a bad or stupid or distracted or whatever baseball decision-maker. He's a really smart and capable guy that may or may not have fallen short in his approach for 2015.

I'm still open to seeing what he has in store for this offseason before I start flaming for failure to build for the future, as well, but that is really the only area where I see the organization as having clearly fallen short thus far.

[clapdiddy]

Also, not that it *needs* to be said, but if "this is Duquette's mess" then it has to be acknowledged that the best record in the AL East from 2012 to present is also his to own. This isn't a bad or stupid or distracted or whatever baseball decision-maker. He's a really smart and capable guy that may or may not have fallen short in his approach for 2015.

I'm still open to seeing what he has in store for this offseason before I start flaming for failure to build for the future, as well, but that is really the only area where I see the organization as having clearly fallen short thus far.

I agree with this. It seems that many think we are doomed to several seasons of mediocrity (or less) after this season's free agent exodus. I think Duquette will pull even more tricks out of his sleeve to get this team younger and likely very competitive next season. Plus, he's working off a solid core of Jones, Machado, Schoop, and to a lesser extent, Hardy.

[Jonesy10]

An average MLB catcher, this year, has a .238, .302, .373 line, good for a .657 OPS. Joseph is almost exactly matching that this year, although his career numbers are just a little bit worse. For the next year or two he should be an okay starter, even if he's not pulling the team forward with that performance.

Joseph is actually much higher than that. He has a .698 OPS.

[DrungoHazewood]

Joseph is actually much higher than that. He has a .698 OPS.

My post had a typo - I meant to type .675 instead of .657. Joseph is a bit higher than that still.

[Stotle]

I agree with this. It seems that many think we are doomed to several seasons of mediocrity (or less) after this season's free agent exodus. I think Duquette will pull even more tricks out of his sleeve to get this team younger and likely very competitive next season. Plus, he's working off a solid core of Jones, Machado, Schoop, and to a lesser extent, Hardy.

That's what I am hoping for. I'm interested to see what he has planned -- I'm not smart enough to think of anything outside of entertaining a trade of Jones or a temporary increase in payroll to buy productive placeholders that are likely to be under-performers down the road.