Rosenthal: No Deal

[bej6789]

No problem keeping him. If the offer wasn't enough let someone step up to the plate and offer something more. Someone will want his services enough at the deadline or next offseason, there's no doubt in my mind.

There's also no doubt in my mind that Ken Rosenthail is one of the more biased, negative analysts when it comes to the Orioles and the day I believe something he writes is the day the Orioles win a WS.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Veal, Cedeno, Gallagher and 4th is quality....I think the 4th could be EPat, Murton or maybe Marshall...I have a hard time believing the Cubs wouldn't trade those 4 for BRob, especially since 2-3 of them have no place on their team.

That is a good offer and certainly enough for us to trade BRob IMO.

You might think it is a fair offer, but that doesn't mean it is a quality offer.

A quality offer is one we will accept. We obviously have yet to reach that point.

[Harry Carry]

No problem keeping him. If the offer wasn't enough let someone step up to the plate and offer something more. Someone will want his services enough at the deadline or next offseason, there's no doubt in my mind.

There's also no doubt in my mind that Ken Rosenthail is one of the more biased, negative analysts when it comes to the Orioles and the day I believe something he writes is the day the Orioles win a WS.

I agree with when someone says Mlb sources that tells me it's not coming from the Cubs or the Orioles.Then he says the Orioles are still scouting the Cubs for what there health.

[clarence]

I agree with SG that if the fourth player was one of Marshall, Ceda or EPatt, the deal should have been done. BUT, I understand AM gambling that another team will get into the mix at some point. For people to say that the offer wasn't good enough makes little sense to me since there is only one buyer and that is what they were willing to pay. Now, AM gambles that someone will pay more. I doubt very seriously that BRob sees the end of his current contract in an O's uniform, and now the question becomes will his value increase from the current Cubs offer or decrease. This debate will probably rage on into the future until we eventually trade BRob and then debate which deal was better. If Gallagher becomes a consistent #3 for six years of service time, I think we will end up losing out in the deal (although I realize it won't be happening in the ALEast).

[FO2020]

I think that most posters would agree that the rumored package from the Cubs was probably a very "fair" offer. I think that most of us Os fans would also agree that "fair" wasn't enough in this case, and are happy to keep Brian around for at least a little while longer.

Is saying the rumored package was probably fair and then saying that fair wasn't good enough contradicting yourself? Or are you saying that basically, in order to move Roberts the O's would have to rip off the Cubs?

[FO2020]

Ok, I'll throw my two cents into here.....

1) If many believe that the rumored deal was fair, and the O's still didn't take it, what makes anyone think that some other GM sitting on the sidelines right now is going to say to himself, "Jeez, I wasn't in on Roberts from the beginning, but now that AM has made it clear that a "fair" deal isn't good enough for Roberts, we can totally overpay and snatch him away from [insert any other team name here]."? The key word in all of that is rumored, nobody knows if it was offered, or not, nobody knows jack at this point.

2) It's been said on this board that Roberts is a "difference maker". While I agree that he's a very good player, I think I would have to disagree that he's a difference maker. Let's be honest here people, even with him, the O's won 69 games last year. And that was with Bedard as your ace. And before I get slammed here for this opinion, I realize that he's a great leadoff hitter, and 2B, I'm not disputing that. But if it's a tie game in the 9th with 2 outs, Roberts is not the first guy that comes to mind that I want up at the plate. THOSE are the difference makers.

3) This is probably the biggest thing, Rosenthal never said "dead". His quote was "...the Cubs will not trade for Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts before Opening Day." God help us all, that could mean that it's not dead, it just drags out into the regular season.

[geschinger]

You might think it is a fair offer, but that doesn't mean it is a quality offer.

A quality offer is one we will accept. We obviously have yet to reach that point.

If the names are correct it would be much more accurate that it is a quality offer but MacPhail is holding out for an outstanding offer. MacPhail is human and like many GMs before him and many who will come after him he will make mistakes including turning down quality offers. I'm not saying this is one of those instances, just that the definition of quality offer is not determined by whether or not it is accepted.

[toonsterwu]

I think both sides fanbases are probably pleased the talks seem to be over for now. It was getting tiring listening to these rumors.

For the Cubs, many of us felt that Roberts value wasn't enough to justify the move (not really here to debate this ... )

For the Orioles, the chances were always higher that a market for a 2nd baseman or leadoff option would be greater at midseason than now. Simply put, there wasn't a market right now.

[maudibjr]

Well good. The O's should at least make an effort to score 1 run a game.

[toonsterwu]

Well, then you can't deal in iffs either, can you Harry. Maybe the Cubs don't need Roberts IF DeRosa steps up and IF Fukudome does well in the leadoff spot (or whoever leads off).

The fact that you Cubs fans keep coming on this website whining about MacPhail not yet doing a deal with the Cubs only proves to us that a lot of people in Chicago want Roberts pretty bad.

It's been about 50/50 amongst Cubs fans as to whether or not this deal was desirable.

As for me, I'm on here because I grew up in Maryland and followed the Orioles quite a bit, in the 90's heydays.

Btw, Fukudome and DeRosa are likely hitting 5th and 6th. I'd rather see one of them hit 2nd, which is something Lou has hinted he'll revisit.

[toonsterwu]

Almost 2 years ago when the Cubs traded Todd Walker to the Pads they got 2 relievers who were ranked 20 and 26 in their minor league system. One of them was Jose Ceda who you guys have been drooling over for months the other I believe is still in the system I forgot his name but if you scout your players right you find guys like that and the Cubs do a great job of that. Look, a deal could be had if Andy accepted lower level guys you probably could get a 5 for one but no one knows anything for sure besides Cedeno, Gallagher and Veal.I don't think it's dead it probably means ths deal is closer than anyone realises, Rosenthal blows!!!

You are probably thinking of one of our other deals with the Padres. We've had several in recent years. The Walker trade was Walker and cash for Ceda. We had the Bowen/Burke for Barrett trade last year. The one you are thinking about is probably the Scott Williamson for Fabian Jimenez Angulo and Joel Santo deal. Santo is still with us in AAA, although he really isn't much. But we did get two intriguing talents in Burke and Ceda out of those three deals and that isn't bad.

[Number5]

Is saying the rumored package was probably fair and then saying that fair wasn't good enough contradicting yourself? Or are you saying that basically, in order to move Roberts the O's would have to rip off the Cubs?

Not at all. Surely you have turned down many "fair offers" in Fantasy. I know I have. Just because an offer can be called "fair," it doesn't mean it is something that you want to do. Maybe the positions don't fit, or maybe the players offered don't fit the goals that you are trying to accomplish. There are any number of reasons that one might decide not to accept a "fair" offer.

In this case the overriding objective for the Orioles is accepting an offer for Roberts only if doing so clearly looks like it will add appreciably to the rebuilding effort. If he is unconvinced that a particular offer will do that, the game plan calls for McPhail to reject the offer, whether he deems it "fair" or not.

[Leitch]

I'm not terribly disappointed. I think if we trade Roberts there has to be that stud top prospect type guy like Pie in the deal. I saw a few decent possible regulars but nobody with star potential.

[TheOtherRipken]

No Orioles fan should be dissapointed.

McPhail said at the beginning that everyone on the team is available but he is not obligated to make a trade. He has to be blown away by the offer.

You could probably consider the Cubs' proposal adequate, but no one is blown away by it. In fact it is not as good as either the Bedard or Tejada trade.

[Why Not?]

They are not iffy he is are CF. Hendry is looking for a right handed hitter that can play all 3 outfield positions. Pie will play everyday except against tough lefties is what Lou has said.

Pinella buried Pie on the bench last season then staged a competition with a fringe-type in Sam Fuld this spring. They've reportedly asked about Coco Crisp this offseason and continue to look for someone to spell him vs. lefties.....not just an occasional day-off thing. You don't get Crisp for that purpose.

Trib -- March 10

Even if Pie wins the starting job, the Cubs are still interested in acquiring a right-handed-hitting center fielder to at least platoon, as both Pie and Fuld swing left-handed. Pie has heard names like Coco Crisp (a switch-hitter) and Marlon Byrd but knows the job is his to lose.

Has Pie opened some space over Fuld?

"It looks like it," Piniella said. "Fuld ... he's struggled. He's been pressing a little bit. Felix has opened up ground on Sammy. But remember, this is Sammy's first major-league camp, and Pie has been here -- what, three or four years now? It's a big difference. There's a big, big separation in experience, and it's showing."

If Pie is a superstar in waiting, an untouchable-in-trade type of player, he should be -- without question -- THE guy by the time he's 23 and has 800 PAs at AAA ball. For whatever reason, I don't think the Cubs see Pie as that type of player.