Dan's Offseason Moves Part One: Cruz

[Bahama O's Fan]

Let's review Dan's moves this past offseason one by one and see what you think. This one is simple. At the time (not now in hindsight), would you have signed Cruz to the deal he got from Seattle? A simple yes or no.

[25 Nuggets]

Let's review Dan's moves this past offseason one by one and see what you think. This one is simple. At the time (not now in hindsight)' date=' would you have signed Cruz to the deal he got from Seattle? A simple yes or no.[/quote']

Yes. FTR:

2015 (34) - $14.25 mil

2016 (35) - $14.25 mil

2017 (36) - $14.25 mil

2018 (37) - $14.25 mil

Cruz was the one guy I wanted back in the off season (after Hardy re-signed during the season). I would have done it, and it probably would blow up in my face.

[SteveO]

Let's review Dan's moves this past offseason one by one and see what you think. This one is simple. At the time (not now in hindsight)' date=' would you have signed Cruz to the deal he got from Seattle? A simple yes or no.[/quote']

I said so at the time and still believe that answer is yes.

To make the argument that the production would be replaced by the guys (Manny, JJ, CD, Schoop etc) coming back or improving their numbers is equal to me to resigning yourself that your only gonna be as good as last year. That's not what winning franchises do. When you have a team that can win, you go for it and if you have to, you eat a little money on the back end.

Free agents never get what they actually deserve, every team has contracts that look not so hot towards the end, its the cost of doing business. What the Orioles did with the Cruz situation was I agree the financially smart and frugal thing to do. I just wish that once, just once, we were less interested in being frugal and more interested in winning a championship. If we came up short so be it, but at at least we would have given it all we could.

[webbrick2010]

Need to go back one move.

I was against extending Hardy for 40 million dollars after his HRs had dropped from 25 to 9 and he missed 20 games with a sore back.

If you don't make that mistake I would have risked the money on Cruz

[olehippi]

I honestly don't think money was the main problem. Cruz wanted a 4th year and DD wouldn't give it to him.

How many of those one run wins last year were because of Cruz? Maybe we can look at the record this year in one run games and get an idea.

Another question: would giving Cruz 4 years, along with the possibility of injury and serious decline in the last 3 years of the contract, have been worth reaching the playoffs again, and a chance of winning the World Series this year?

.

[Chavez Ravine]

I honestly don't think money was the main problem. Cruz wanted a 4th year and DD wouldn't give it to him.

How many of those one run wins last year were because of Cruz? Maybe we can look at the record this year in one run games and get an idea.

Another question: would giving Cruz 4 years, along with the possibility of injury and serious decline in the last 3 years of the contract, have been worth reaching the playoffs again, and a chance of winning the World Series this year?

.

I have completely changed my mind on this issue. Conceptually, not signing him for four years makes perfect sense. But sometimes you need to use that credit card and leverage future cash like a playa. In retrospect, I think this was a good example. Of course, things are way clearer now. Cruz has been arguably better this year than he was last year and Dan's replacements sucked....more so than they should have on paper. With this hindsight, the long term risk of paying an old and sucky Cruz for one or two more years seems minimal compared to the near term benefits.

[Nevermore]

Let's review Dan's moves this past offseason one by one and see what you think. This one is simple. At the time (not now in hindsight)' date=' would you have signed Cruz to the deal he got from Seattle? A simple yes or no.[/quote']Absolutely. I didn't know until the Seattle series how important and integral that Cruz was to the other members of the O's team. So it's not just Cruz's accomplishments, it's Cruz's place on the team. I read DD's interview; he didn't want to sign Cruz for a 4th year. only for 3 years. Even if Nellie's numbers had faded a bit during the 4th year, it still would have been worth it for what Nellie contributed to the team. DD was wrong on this one.

[Crazysilver03]

I honestly don't think money was the main problem. Cruz wanted a 4th year and DD wouldn't give it to him.

How many of those one run wins last year were because of Cruz? Maybe we can look at the record this year in one run games and get an idea.

Another question: would giving Cruz 4 years, along with the possibility of injury and serious decline in the last 3 years of the contract, have been worth reaching the playoffs again, and a chance of winning the World Series this year?

.

How can you determine if one run wins were because of Cruz?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[sportsfan8703]

Need to go back one move.

I was against extending Hardy for 40 million dollars after his HRs had dropped from 25 to 9 and he missed 20 games with a sore back.

If you don't make that mistake I would have risked the money on Cruz

We shouldn't of had to choose between 1 of our 4 FA's to sign. I can't believe that anyone can vote "No" to this, even in retrospect. Since this is just for Cruz, I'll keep it to him. If we have Cruz over the riff raff we trotted out there in the OF, we are 4-5 games better right now. I don't even feel like adding the money up right now, because it's so sad. But you take said depressing amount of money given to Young, Snider and De Aza and we're halfway to Big Nelson.

[Nevermore]

We shouldn't of had to choose between 1 of our 4 FA's to sign. I can't believe that anyone can vote "No" to this, even in retrospect. Since this is just for Cruz, I'll keep it to him. If we have Cruz over the riff raff we trotted out there in the OF, we are 4-5 games better right now. I don't even feel like adding the money up right now, because it's so sad. But you take said depressing amount of money given to Young, Snider and De Aza and we're halfway to Big Nelson.

And this money was dead money. The O's management has to pay these players, at the very least, a pro-rated portion of their salaries even though they don't play for the O's any longer. This is purely wasted money.

[kaerts111]

Need to go back one move.

I was against extending Hardy for 40 million dollars after his HRs had dropped from 25 to 9 and he missed 20 games with a sore back.

If you don't make that mistake I would have risked the money on Cruz

Yeah valid point. I like JJ, but let's face it the whole reason why we got him in the first place was that he was prone to injury. Once his power #s dropped and he missed those games last year due to back problems I thought if we can't get him on the cheap, it's time to part ways. Another major dunderhead part of that same deal was the timing! We were riding on the high crescendo of having beat the Tigers and DD broke it IMO for his want of the limelight (making that deal with JJ). It was a very poor business decision all the way around - among others.....

[Bahama O's Fan]

We shouldn't of had to choose between 1 of our 4 FA's to sign. I can't believe that anyone can vote "No" to this, even in retrospect. Since this is just for Cruz, I'll keep it to him. If we have Cruz over the riff raff we trotted out there in the OF, we are 4-5 games better right now. I don't even feel like adding the money up right now, because it's so sad. But you take said depressing amount of money given to Young, Snider and De Aza and we're halfway to Big Nelson.

But they were only one year commitments. We are not halfway to Cruz, we are only halfway to Cruz's one year salary. So we are one eighth there.

[Ruzious]

I have completely changed my mind on this issue. Conceptually, not signing him for four years makes perfect sense. But sometimes you need to use that credit card and leverage future cash like a playa. In retrospect, I think this was a good example. Of course, things are way clearer now. Cruz has been arguably better this year than he was last year and Dan's replacements sucked....more so than they should have on paper. With this hindsight, the long term risk of paying an old and sucky Cruz for one or two more years seems minimal compared to the near term benefits.

Yeah, I think people didn't - and many still don't - get the big picture view. While I think the money would have been a great deal for the O's, even if it wasn't - you got to look at the effect on the team. And another consideration was - salaries are going to be going up - probably by a lot. In a couple of years, those last 2 year salaries are not going to look like very much.

[Herman]

Yeah, I think people didn't - and many still don't - get the big picture view. While I think the money would have been a great deal for the O's, even if it wasn't - you got to look at the effect on the team. And another consideration was - salaries are going to be going up - probably by a lot. In a couple of years, those last 2 year salaries are not going to look like very much.

I don't think that the Orioles get the big picture view either

[BMann]

Yeah, I think people didn't - and many still don't - get the big picture view. While I think the money would have been a great deal for the O's, even if it wasn't - you got to look at the effect on the team. And another consideration was - salaries are going to be going up - probably by a lot. In a couple of years, those last 2 year salaries are not going to look like very much.

This. Nelson was clearly very popular in the clubhouse. A meaningless sidenote if he was putting up Nolan Reimold's numbers, but as the reigning Most Valuable Oriole of the first division champion in 18 years - this should've been a frickin' no-brainer. I was ticked then and I've only gotten more ticked as this season has gone on.

I'm just curious why the 11 people who voted NO think letting Cruz go was a good idea. Unless your last name is Angelos, in which case you saved a few bucks - hooray. But it's not my money, so why do I care about the fourth year dollars that supposedly scared off DD? 2015 could've been our year. Instead, the bums who were supposed to fill Cruz's shoes have played horribly and we're barely a factor in the race for the second wild-card, instead of effectively defending our AL East crown. Grrrrrr...

I'm sure I'll get over this eventually... just like I'll get over the Ravens letting Bolden go after their title run. Letting key beloved members of a championship team walk is bad business. Period.