Yankees Got Chapman

[Bradysburns]

If you want to discuss the merits of DD's employment, we can do that, but it's unfitting to so blatantly misrepresent the positions of those you are debating with. Nobody is advocating "doing nothing." Rather, that making moves, any moves, for the sake of doing them is not a winning strategy. It takes two to tango on any deal (trade, FA, or otherwise) and sometimes the moves you turn down are just as important as those you do make. We could have traded Manny numerous times in the past, and Gausman many times this offseason, but I'm glad we haven't based on the returns that have been discussed.

Haha - isn't blatantly misrepresenting the other guy's argument standard practice for pretty much all sports message boards? C'mon.

[Tx Oriole]

If he really fired that weapon and beat that woman, I would hope he is banned permanently.

I wouldn't want him on the O's.

[Larry18]

Lets look at the facts. No charges. No continuing investigation. Case is currently closed. Lets be fair. Do you think theres an ethical issue when a man is NOT charged with a crime and there is currently no police investigation? This isn't like the Greg Hardy case. As much as I hate to admit it, the Yankees made a very smart move. We will have to see how this pans out, but right now they took a calculated risk with very average prospects going the other way.

In Florida the victim has to press charges, like it was a civil matter. In other states DV is treated as a crime and prosecuted with or without cooperation from the victim. I think the victim hiding in the bushes while Chapman fired 8 shots into the garage is pretty damning. Others may disagree.

[Larry18]

It's pretty damning but apparently not illegal. Shouldn't we let the law take care of the criminals and baseball take care of baseball?

Only if you believe that closing your eyes is the best way to combat DV.

[Stotle]

Only if you believe that closing your eyes is the best way to combat DV.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd be surprised to find that baseball suspensions are an effective form of combatting domestic violence. It presupposes athletes are rational thinkers when it comes to DV and will stop and reconsider their actions for fear of suspension. Based on the little I know about domestic violence, I get the sense it is a lot more about not having control over one's actions.

So, yeah, I get the moral outrage on principle, but let's be honest about what folks are advocating. They want to punish Chapman because they disapprove of actions he has been accused of. This isn't about helping a victim or trying to prevent domestic violence in the future.

I assume there are folks the would advocate the same for alleged DUI/DWI, assault, and any number of other crimes as well. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe MLB's policy of enforcement is going to include mandatory counseling over a period of time. I don't know.

[waroriole]

40 game suspension? LOL

They put Bobby Cox in the HOF. Oh, the hypocrisy!

That was before the NFL got raked over the coals for Ray Rice. Things are different now. Not saying he'll get 40, but I wouldn't be shocked.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd be surprised to find that baseball suspensions are an effective form of combatting domestic violence. It presupposes athletes are rational thinkers when it comes to DV and will stop and reconsider their actions for fear of suspension. Based on the little I know about domestic violence, I get the sense it is a lot more about not having control over one's actions.

So, yeah, I get the moral outrage on principle, but let's be honest about what folks are advocating. They want to punish Chapman because they disapprove of actions he has been accused of. This isn't about helping a victim or trying to prevent domestic violence in the future.

I assume there are folks the would advocate the same for alleged DUI/DWI, assault, and any number of other crimes as well. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe MLB's policy of enforcement is going to include mandatory counseling over a period of time. I don't know.

I don't recall much outrage when the O's traded for K-Rod.

[Stotle]

I don't recall much outrage when the O's traded for K-Rod.

Consistency across would-be outrages is not a characteristic of the people at large.

[Stotle]

As an aside, I don't hear anyone arguing for Chapman's right to own a handgun being revoked. The one fact in the case is that he got angry, got his gun, and fired 6 or 7 shots into his own garage. He's already demonstrated to me that he doesn't deserve to have the right to a handgun.

This should be good....

[MrOrange82]

This should be good....

If you can't stand the heat, don't post on the Incendiary Political Proclamations Hangout. Not that there are rules about such things, regardless.

[Aristotelian]

It's pretty damning but apparently not illegal. Shouldn't we let the law take care of the criminals and baseball take care of baseball?

Both and. People can and should lose their jobs over stuff that would not hold up in court with a professional defense attorney. It is absolutely fine with me if MLB wants to take its own stand on domestic violence or any number of issues (recreational drugs) where players could also face legal consequences. Suspending a guy half a season seems like a good penalty.

I am ambivalent about whether teams should be on the hook for the contract. This seems to be a particularly egregious case where the Yankees know they are getting a bad guy. I also wanted them on the hook for A Rod simply because I hate the Yankees. But what if the O's spend a lot of resources on a player with a clean record who ends up doing something bad? Since it is the player committing the crime, the team shouldn't be punished over something (in most cases) it couldn't predict or control. As much as I would like to see the Yankees get hit here for a shady move, I don't think I would like the precedent it could set.

[Stotle]

Both and. People can and should lose their jobs over stuff that would not hold up in court with a professional defense attorney. It is absolutely fine with me if MLB wants to take its own stand on domestic violence or any number of issues (recreational drugs) where players could also face legal consequences. Suspending a guy half a season seems like a good penalty.

I am ambivalent about whether teams should be on the hook for the contract. This seems to be a particularly egregious case where the Yankees know they are getting a bad guy. I also wanted them on the hook for A Rod simply because I hate the Yankees. But what if the O's spend a lot of resources on a player with a clean record who ends up doing something bad? Since it is the player committing the crime, the team shouldn't be punished over something (in most cases) it couldn't predict or control. As much as I would like to see the Yankees get hit here for a shady move, I don't think I would like the precedent it could set.

Makes sense. I think it's clear on its face that the lives of all involved would be greatly improved by preventing folks accused of certain crimes from being employed.

[Aristotelian]

I don't recall much outrage when the O's traded for K-Rod.

Not outrage but there were a lot of people that did not agree with it in significant part due to character issues. Delmon Young too.

[Larry18]

Oh yeah. Suspending Aroldis Chapman will go a long way to combatting DV. You think so?

If they do suspend him, it's just to appease the public (customers who spend on their product). That's all.

Did you make a big fuss when Bobby Cox was elected to the HOF and wasn't even suspended a day when his wife originally claimed that he PUNCHED her. The police actually found evidence of physical violence in that case, something the police say they didn't see in the Chapman case.

I made a huge fuss about Bobby Cox getting into Hall. More because the hypocrisy of saying Bonds,Clemens,McGwire etc... were morally bankrupt while Cox wasn't.

I'm more than PO'd about the gun ownership issue. Ray Rice is still allowed to own a gun because he went through pretrial intervention.

In no way do I believe that fining/suspending Chapman will stop DV. But you still have to try.

[Stotle]

In no way do I believe that fining/suspending Chapman will stop DV. But you still have to try.

I admire your passion, but this is the exact wrong way to go about fixing anything. "Let's do something we know is likely to have no positive effect but will make us feel better" has never done any good that I'm aware of. Particularly when your actions are negatively impacting others.