Mancini. Cisco, Trumbo, Alvarez and Wieters

[aewell]

My point has been, you can't compare Wieters to Trumbo, and you can't compare Wieters to his peers, simply using WAR.

I am not comparing Trumbo directly to Wieters. I am suggesting that for Wieters 15 million and WAR we can pay less for another catcher. That it is more difficult to find a productive RF for next season. (Dexter Fowler example) Wiethers is #3 in salary and #18 in WAR for all catchers. He also will be 31 next year. Have you ever seen the stats of catchers over 30? I feel some here just make decisions without regard to the realities for the team budget. If Wieters was so good why is our sp so bad?

[Can_of_corn]

I am not comparing Trumbo directly to Wieters. I am suggesting that for Wieters 15 million and WAR we can pay less for another catcher. That is more difficult to find a productive RF for next season. (Dexter Fowler) Wiether is #3 in salary and #18 in WAR for all catchers. He also will be 31 next year. Have you ever seen the stats of catchers over 30?

It is almost always harder to find someone that can play catcher than it is a right fielder.

I wouldn't want Trumbo in right next year anyway.

He's a better fit at DH.

[El Gordo]

To be honest I don't delve deep into the component math. I let the folks that like to do that sort of thing provide it for me.

Which is why you are merely a sabermatic not a sabermetrician.

[Redskins Rick]

It is almost always harder to find someone that can play catcher than it is a right fielder.

I wouldn't want Trumbo in right next year anyway.

He's a better fit at DH.

I prefer Trumbo over Cruz, Snider, De Aza or Parra.

But, my biggest concern is catcher for 2017.

[aewell]

I don't think Rick cares that much either way.

I was just curious if you were using rWAR or fWAR.

Wasn't a big deal I just prefer to know which data set is being used when folks reference WAR. It makes a huge difference when discussing pitchers for instance. Go compare the two when it comes to Ubaldo.

Back to ? in case you weren't aware rWAR vs fWAR. Until early 2013, it used to be that another significant difference between the two systems was that each calculated Replacement Level differently. That has since been changed, and both sites now calculate replacement level the same way:

[El Gordo]

I am not comparing Trumbo directly to Wieters. I am suggesting that for Wieters 15 million and WAR we can pay less for another catcher. That it is more difficult to find a productive RF for next season. (Dexter Fowler example) Wiethers is #3 in salary and #18 in WAR for all catchers. He also will be 31 next year. Have you ever seen the stats of catchers over 30? I feel some here just make decisions without regard to the realities for the team budget. If Wieters was so good why is our sp so bad?

Trumbo shouldn't be regarded as a RF he is a 1B/DH. We don't need a 1B and we can get a decent DH for much less than Trumbo will get on the market, if we trade Mancicni. Carlos Beltran for a two year deal would be one example. There are aspects of Catching that are important but not measurable like handling pitchers and calling a game. There are a number of good defensive RF with decent bats available in next years FA.

[aewell]

It is almost always harder to find someone that can play catcher than it is a right fielder.

I wouldn't want Trumbo in right next year anyway.

He's a better fit at DH.

Because of your gut? or baseball decision. Wieters will play were in 2 years? DH , 1st, RF? Trumbo has a 2.2 WAR Wieters .8 ... Where is logic?

[aewell]

I prefer Trumbo over Cruz, Snider, De Aza or Parra.

But, my biggest concern is catcher for 2017.

We have more options at catcher in the system right now than for RF? some would argue that we have depth at catcher. DD just mentioned it on air 2 days ago.

[Can_of_corn]

Because of your gut? or baseball decision. Wieters will play were in 2 years? DH , 1st, RF? Trumbo has a 2.2 WAR Wieters .8 ... Where is logic?

When did I say anything about giving Wieters a two year contract?

And it isn't my gut that says Trumbo is bad in the outfield, it is a combination of defensive metrics and having a set of working eyes.

The thing is there are a lot more players capable of putting up a 2.0 ish WAR in right field than Catcher. There are many many more players capable of giving you replacement level + production in RF than Catcher.

[aewell]

Trumbo shouldn't be regarded as a RF he is a 1B/DH. We don't need a 1B and we can get a decent DH for much less than Trumbo will get on the market, if we trade Mancicni. Carlos Beltran for a two year deal would be one example. There are aspects of Catching that are important but not measurable like handling pitchers and calling a game. There are a number of good defensive RF with decent bats available in next years FA.

Well regardless of how you feel (gut) He is #8 in WAR at the RF position. Who BTW leads the majors in HR and the team in RBIs by 10 over C. Davis. Who is replacing that next year?

[Can_of_corn]

Well regardless of how you feel (gut) He is #8 in WAR at the RF position. Who BTW leads the majors in HR and the team in RBIs by 10 over C. Davis. Who is replacing that next year?

And what is his career average in RF? Is it your gut that is telling you this production is sustainable over a multi-year contract?

[Frobby]

We have more options at catcher in the system right now than for RF? some would argue that we have depth at catcher. DD just mentioned it on air 2 days ago.

Depth, but maybe another year away from being able to help much at the major league level IMO. So we'd need a short-term solution for 2017. It stinks that Joseph has fallen so far back this year; let's hope he gets untracked after the ASB.

[aewell]

When did I say anything about giving Wieters a two year contract?

And it isn't my gut that says Trumbo is bad in the outfield, it is a combination of defensive metrics and having a set of working eyes.

The thing is there are a lot more players capable of putting up a 2.0 ish WAR in right field than Catcher. There are many many more players capable of giving you replacement level + production in RF than Catcher.

Oh yeah name them? I just listed them. Do we have a chance to get any of those RFs? No is the answer. BTW Wiethers doesn't have a 2.0 WAR he has a .8 and there are 17 catchers this year with higher than him. Some of them Free agents next season.

[aewell]

And what is his career average in RF? Is it your gut that is telling you this production is sustainable over a multi-year contract?

Now that is a decent question. But I could pose that same question to you about Wieters. How will a 31 yo catcher work out in the next 3 years who had TJ already. Only plays in 64 games out of 87. While Trumbo has played all 87.

[aewell]

Depth, but maybe another year away from being able to help much at the major league level IMO. So we'd need a short-term solution for 2017. It stinks that Joseph has fallen so far back this year; let's hope he gets untracked after the ASB.

I agree C Joseph has regressed with the bat. I would attempt to sign a C in fa to a modest contract while waiting for Sisco (who hit a 3 run center field homer in the futures game btw)