Sensible Plans (I think)

[Greg Pappas]

Re: Tejada and Roberts.

1) Re-hashing an old idea I know, but it has become apparent to me that the most viable trade partner for Miggy (as a SS) is the Red Sox.

I see Tejada as still having solid value, but the kind of value that will steadily decrease in time. I see the Orioles chances of making the playoffs this year or next as less than likely. So logically it makes sense to deal players who are older and will not project to have near the same value in the next few seasons.

I want to see the O's build a solid nucleus of young talent to contend with year-in/year-out. Have a 3-year plan, one in which we cut the fat and acquire players who will be locked in with us as we build toward a playoff caliber team.

Boston is in the AL East, I realize this, yet with the Red Sox and Yanks annual contenders and big $ spenders, the only way to compete realistically is through player development and shrewd player acquisitions. Boston has, IMHO, the best pitching prospect in the game in RHP Clay Buckholz. With Lugo a mess at the plate, it would be a great time to approach the Sox about a deal involving Big Papi's longtime friend, Miggy. We receive Lugo and his $8.5mil, Buckholz, and another prospect, perhaps 1B Lars Anderson.

I want Buckholz bad and having this stud prospect in our system furthers our collection of pitching talent and gives us a potential #1 starter for years to come... we aren't winning w/Tejada, so this seems to be a wise decision.

2)While the ol' Roberts-to-the-Mets trade makes sense on some level, the team that arguably makes the most sense to deal BRob to is the Cardinals. The defending Champions are struggling, featuring the following lineup;

D Eckstein SS

C Duncan LF

A Pujols 1B

J Edmonds CF

S Rolen 3B

J Encarnacion RF

A Miles 2B

K Stinnett C

And after:

B Roberts 2B

D Eckstein SS

C Duncan LF

A Pujols 1B

J Edmonds CF

S Rolen 3B

J Encarnacion RF

K Stinnett C

The Cards could offer stud OF prospect Colby Rasmus and another good prospect like RHP Blake Hawksworth.

The other solid option, and a very close 2nd, is the Cubs. I'd like Davearm's thoughts on BRob to the Cubbies. (Another 2B to the Cubs, I know )

[clapdiddy]

Re: Tejada and Roberts.

1) Re-hashing an old idea I know, but it has become apparent to me that the most viable trade partner for Miggy (as a SS) is the Red Sox.

I see Tejada as still having solid value, but the kind of value that will steadily decrease in time. I see the Orioles chances of making the playoffs this year or next as less than likely. So logically it makes sense to deal players who are a older and will not project to have near the same value in the next few seasons.

I want to see the O's build a solid nucleus of young talent to contend with year-in/year-out. Have a 3-year plan, one in which we cut the fat and acquire players who will be locked in with us as we build toward a playoff caliber team.

Boston is in the AL East, I realize this, yet with the Red Sox and Yanks annual contenders and big $ spenders, the only way to compete realistically is through player development and shrewd player acquisitions. Boston has, IMHO, the best pitching prospect in the game in RHP Clay Buckholz. With Lugo a mess at the plate, it would be a great time to approach the Sox about a deal involving Big Papi's longtime friend, Miggy. We receive Lugo and his $8.5mil, Buckholz, and another prospect, perhaps 1B Lars Anderson.

I want Buckholz bad and having this stud prospect in our system furthers our collection of pitching talent and gives us a potential #1 starter for years to come... we aren't winning w/Tejada, so this seems to be a wise decision.

2)While the ol' Roberts-to-the-Mets trade makes sense on some level, the team that arguably makes the most sense to deal BRob to is the Cardinals. The defending Champions are struggling, featuring the following lineup;

D Eckstein SS

C Duncan LF

A Pujols 1B

J Edmonds CF

S Rolen 3B

J Encarnacion RF

A Miles 2B

K Stinnett C

And after:

B Roberts 2B

D Eckstein SS

C Duncan LF

A Pujols 1B

J Edmonds CF

S Rolen 3B

J Encarnacion RF

K Stinnett C

The Cards could offer stud OF prospect Colby Rasmus and another good prospect like RHP Blake Hawksworth.

The other solid option, and a very close 2nd, is the Cubs. I'd like Davearm's thoughts on BRob to the Cubbies. (Another 2B to the Cubs, I know )

Good ideas here, Greg. We have to come to the realization that to get something of value, we're going to have to give up something of value. If we could make these two deals, then trade Bedard for some young talent, I think we'd have all the ingredients to get younger and better quickly...especially if we are getting back near MLB-ready talent.

EDIT: Greg (or davearm)...fill me in on who we could get from the Cubs for Roberts...

[Greg Pappas]

Good ideas here, Greg. We have to come to the realization that to get something of value, we're going to have to give up something of value. If we could make these two deals, then trade Bedard for some young talent, I think we'd have all the ingredients to get younger and better quickly...especially if we are getting back near MLB-ready talent.

EDIT: Greg (or davearm)...fill me in on who we could get from the Cubs for Roberts...

Perhaps RHP Sean Gallagher and OF Tyler Colvin.

Gallagher is up now with the Cubs, and profiles as a #3 starter while Colvin is the Cubs #1 draft pick last year out of Clemson. Again, Davearm would be well equipped to venture a guess from the Cubs point of view.

[Sports Guy]

I am not a fan of either of these trades although i would love to get Buchholz from Boston.

[tywright]

Perhaps RHP Sean Gallagher and OF Tyler Colvin.

Gallagher is up now with the Cubs, and profiles as a #3 starter while Colvin is the Cubs #1 draft pick last year out of Clemson. Again, Davearm would be well equipped to venture a guess from the Cubs point of view.

Colvin is a free swinger with less than desired batting eye, but does have plenty of power potential. I'd rather go with the Cardinals idea since Rasmus is younger and a better bet as a power OF.

[Greg Pappas]

I am not a fan of either of these trades although i would love to get Buchholz from Boston.

Which trades? Tajada's and both BRob deals or just the BRob pair?

Agreed whole-heartedly on Buckholz... getting him would make me just as happy as when we chose Wieters in the draft.

[Greg Pappas]

Colvin is a free swinger with less than desired batting eye, but does have plenty of power potential. I'd rather go with the Cardinals idea since Rasmus is younger and a better bet as a power OF.

Yeah, that's why I chose the Cards deal as #1 for BRob. I like Colvin as well, but Rasmus is just sooooooo good.

[Sports Guy]

Which trades? Tajada's and both BRob deals or just the BRob pair?

Agreed whole-heartedly on Buckholz... getting him would make me just as happy as when we chose Wieters in the draft.

All of them...i want nothing to do with Lugo.

If i am trading Miggy to the Red Sox, they need to feel some pain from it. We need to get more out of them. I would need to get more from Boston than other teams.

Buchholz, Ellsbury and either another decent prospect or a guy like Wily Mo would need to be in the deal.

I look at Roberts the same way i do Bedard. Unless some team offers us 2 amazing prospects, i wouldn't trade him without the 3rd player right now.

BTW, the Cards signed Kennedy to a 3 year deal.

[blueberryale77]

Perhaps RHP Sean Gallagher and OF Tyler Colvin.

Gallagher is up now with the Cubs, and profiles as a #3 starter while Colvin is the Cubs #1 draft pick last year out of Clemson. Again, Davearm would be well equipped to venture a guess from the Cubs point of view.

That's not nearly enough. We already have plenty of #3 starters and Colvin is too far away. I'm not even entirely sure I'd go for your Miggy deal, although I definitely want to see him traded somewhere. Aside from the fact that I hate Lugo, if we give up Miggy we need power bats even more. You're not even getting any big time power prospects in that deal. We need to focus on offense for the future more than pitching. I'd be more likely to do that one though because Tejada's value is really dropping by the day if not the hour and at this point, on this team, his intangibles are a big negative. Roberts, on the other hand, is not going to lose much value in the next year and could gain more if he goes on a little home run tear, plus he's a good clubhouse/community/PR guy. I'm mostly for blowing the team up but if you trade him now what you need to get back is one or more sure things who really fill holes for us.

[tywright]

Yeah, that's why I chose the Cards deal as #1 for BRob. I like Colvin as well, but Rasmus is just sooooooo good.

Yeah Rasmus is a favorite of mine. Though a deal with the Cardinals would be less likely since they have Adam Kennedy already at 2B.

"Adam Kennedy is our starting second baseman. That's not a question," La Russa said. "This isn't a platoon situation. He's been fighting it a little and [Aaron] Miles had four hits. With another left-hander going today, it makes sense. There's nothing beyond that." Kennedy is in the middle of an 0-for-10 slump.

Plus the Cards pitching prospects are not that good.

[tywright]

All of them...i want nothing to do with Lugo.

If i am trading Miggy to the Red Sox, they need to feel some pain from it. We need to get more out of them. I would need to get more from Boston than other teams.

Buchholz, Ellsbury and either another decent prospect or a guy like Wily Mo would need to be in the deal.

I look at Roberts the same way i do Bedard. Unless some team offers us 2 amazing prospects, i wouldn't trade him without the 3rd player right now.

BTW, the Cards signed Kennedy to a 3 year deal.

Wow...they are both top 30 prospects. No way we get that much

[Sports Guy]

Wow...they are both top 30 prospects. No way we get that much

Yea, he wouldn't get that much because they have Lugo there and i would think they aren't ready to just give up on him.

The last thing i want to do is take a bad contract for them and not get enough young talent back, especially since i want talent that is going to be ready yesterday.

[Greg Pappas]

All of them...i want nothing to do with Lugo.

If i am trading Miggy to the Red Sox, they need to feel some pain from it. We need to get more out of them. I would need to get more from Boston than other teams.

Buchholz, Ellsbury and either another decent prospect or a guy like Wily Mo would need to be in the deal.

I look at Roberts the same way i do Bedard. Unless some team offers us 2 amazing prospects, i wouldn't trade him without the 3rd player right now.

BTW, the Cards signed Kennedy to a 3 year deal.

Signing Keddeny is/was an obvious mistake... teams make them all the time (Mora). It doesn't preclude a GM from recognizing an error and attempting to correct it (unless your the O's ). There is little to no chance that the Red Sox would deal both Ellsbury and Buckholz for Miggy, hence the offer of Buckholz, Lugo and a third player. I don't want Lugo either, but he would provide a stop-gap until we secure a player to man SS for years to come. I am trying to be realistic in the way I look at these trade possibilities and while I understand your need for making the Sox feel pain, I am more concerned with getting the best value for Miggy.

Bedard is one to keep, I want no part of moving him unless he gives no indication of his desire to remain an Oriole, by agreeing to an extension.

I understand your views on these things though.

[Greg Pappas]

Wow...they are both top 30 prospects. No way we get that much

As I alluded to in the last post... agreed.

[blueberryale77]

Bedard is one to keep, I want no part of moving him unless he gives no indication of his desire to remain an Oriole, by agreeing to an extension.

The thing with Bedard, though, is that his physical talent (and therefore his value "on paper") is significantly greater than his heart/drive/intangibles. That to me is the type of player you're going to get the best "real world" value back for. I also think Erik Bedard would be better off on a team where he can be the #2 starter he is instead of being under all the pressure to be the "ace" and savior of the staff as he is here. I wouldn't take just any deal in the world for him but I definitely think he should be dangled at the deadline to see what offers we get. He has certainly given indications of being unhappy here, whether he has said that directly or not.