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Time to consider Liz a Reliever?

NCRaven

By NCRaven
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NCRaven Hangout Grand Counsel

NCRaven

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0-5, 5.12 ERA; only 2 "good" starts, a couple okay; lefties hitting over .300 against him; and 25 years old.

Is Liz a future ROOGY? and is it too early to seriously start considering the possibility? Should we move him to that role now and see how he handles coming out of the pen?

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clarence Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

clarence

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We don't need him on the big club yet and he still has options after this season. I'd leave him in the rotation at Norfolk all season and evaluate then. It isn't like he can't come to the O's pen at some point and become a permanent fixture there if he only starts in the minors (see Jim Johnson).

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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He is going to be a reliever, i have very little doubt about that and have felt that way for at least 2 years(i was always one who liked Olson long term over Liz, at least as a starter).

I think they should move him there now....Had he had a bunch of good starts this year, i would agree to leave him there. But let's get this kid used to pitching out of the stretch and a few innings here and there...I think he could be a Zumaya-esque guy.

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hoosiers Hangout Grand Counsel

hoosiers

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I believe Liz has really turned it on in the second half the past two years.

Let's let him be for a while. He has shown the stamina to start - no reason not to give him every chance there unless there are designs on making him a closer.

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NCRaven Hangout Grand Counsel

NCRaven

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He is going to be a reliever, i have very little doubt about that and have felt that way for at least 2 years(i was always one who liked Olson long term over Liz, at least as a starter).

I think they should move him there now....Had he had a bunch of good starts this year, i would agree to leave him there. But let's get this kid used to pitching out of the stretch and a few innings here and there...I think he could be a Zumaya-esque guy.

Although I've been perfectly willing to give Liz time to show what he was capable of, I now agree with you that he's not likely to develop into a dominant starter and seems to fit better in the bullpen. And, not everyone is Jim Johnson who can just go from starting to coming into an inning with the bases loaded and no one out to face Manny Ramirez. I would expect there to be some period of adjustment for Liz, and it might as well start sooner than later.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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Although I've been perfectly willing to give Liz time to show what he was capable of, I now agree with you that he's not likely to develop into a dominant starter and seems to fit better in the bullpen. And, not everyone is Jim Johnson who can just go from starting to coming into an inning with the bases loaded and no one out to face Manny Ramirez. I would expect there to be some period of adjustment for Liz, and it might as well start sooner than later.

We will have to wait until after the All-Star break to see any transactions or transitions.

Pretty much the big moves in the minors will be made end of June and early July. If players are pushing up to get into AAA, something is going to have to be done with Penn and Liz and that might as well be converting them to relievers (if they arent pulling it as starters) either for Norfolk or Baltimore.

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dkdc Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

dkdc

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I think this bullpen talk is premature. Liz isn't pitching that badly; his peripherals are way better than his ERA.

45.2 IP, 43 H, 3 HR, 44 K, 21 BB, 5.12 ERA

Compare to some other guys in the same league:

44.2 IP, 43 H, 3 HR, 47 K, 24 BB, 3.43 ERA

55.2 IP, 52 H, 6 HR, 44 K, 20 BB, 3.88 ERA

48.2 IP, 41 H, 4 HR, 47 K, 20 BB, 2.77 ERA

Those above lines are John Parrish, Homer Bailey, and Bill Murphy.

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Jenius AA

Jenius

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I think this bullpen talk is premature. Liz isn't pitching that badly; his peripherals are way better than his ERA.

45.2 IP, 43 H, 3 HR, 44 K, 21 BB, 5.12 ERA

Compare to some other guys in the same league:

44.2 IP, 43 H, 3 HR, 47 K, 24 BB, 3.43 ERA

55.2 IP, 52 H, 6 HR, 44 K, 20 BB, 3.88 ERA

48.2 IP, 41 H, 4 HR, 47 K, 20 BB, 2.77 ERA

Those above lines are John Parrish, Homer Bailey, and Bill Murphy.

I agree. Liz' FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching, basically an ERA equivalent that measures only peripherals, or stats that are independent of fielders) is 3.70, placing him 14th in the IL and actually lower than the 3.88 he posted at Bowie last year. What seems to be killing his ERA is that nearly half of the baserunners he has allowed have scored, which is very unlikely to continue.

FWIW, I'm not opposed to eventually considering Liz as a reliever, but I'm not convinced now is the time to do that. Anyway, I don't think it's accurate to call him a disappointment right now.

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allstar1579 Hangout Grand Counsel

allstar1579

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I still agree that is about time to move him to relief. He's got mind boggling potential at SP, but that is all it is still, potential. At going on 26, it is about time we make a move out of him and bring him up. Our bullpen could really use a Joel Zumaya-like set-up guy, and Liz could easily be that.

Wait until the 2nd half when a lot of prospects move, and when we move Arietta to Bowie, and Hernandez to Norfolk, we can move Liz to Bmore and find a solution to Walker/Bradford.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I agree. Liz' FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching, basically an ERA equivalent that measures only peripherals, or stats that are independent of fielders) is 3.70, placing him 14th in the IL and actually lower than the 3.88 he posted at Bowie last year. What seems to be killing his ERA is that nearly half of the baserunners he has allowed have scored, which is very unlikely to continue.

FWIW, I'm not opposed to eventually considering Liz as a reliever, but I'm not convinced now is the time to do that. Anyway, I don't think it's accurate to call him a disappointment right now.

Where do you find minor league FIP?

Liz has been a little inconsistent, but I want to see how he does over the next few months. I seem to recall he got stronger as the season went along last year.

If we do bring him up eventually, he may be another guy like Albers and Johnson who seemingly could come out of the pen for a two-innign stint or could start, depending on the team's need at a given time.

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