Luis Hernandez Appreciation Thread

[RShack]

Your crusades against the supposedly vast legions of idioic posters became tiresome long ago.

As is your tendency to speak for the entire board.

The merits (or lack thereof) of LH is a different issue than the way he was treated around here.

The difference in the treatment of him and Bynum for very comparable performance is absurd, and IMO reflects a lot more bandwagon jumping than it does baseball judgment.

[YardBirds13]

As is your tendency to speak for the entire board.

The merits (or lack thereof) of LH is a different issue than the way he was treated around here.

The difference in the treatment of him and Bynum for very comparable performance is absurd, and IMO reflects a lot more bandwagon jumping than it does baseball judgment.

Except that Drungo is right, in that a vast majority of people do think pretty much what he is saying. He is also one of the most well-respected posters on this board, and you are well....not.

[Cokeman]

For being such a big stats-guy, you sure do make them up out of thin air to suit whatever suits you at the moment.

The OH treatment of LH has not been one of its finer moments. And that has zilch to do with what's good for the team.

I guess you look at things much differently than I do. The "treatment" of Luis Hernandez was almost exclusively performance based. The "treatment" of Millar and Huff is what really got personal.

[Mackus]

As is your tendency to speak for the entire board.

The merits (or lack thereof) of LH is a different issue than the way he was treated around here.

The difference in the treatment of him and Bynum for very comparable performance is absurd, and IMO reflects a lot more bandwagon jumping than it does baseball judgment.

Was Hernandez treated any different than Steve Trachsel was?

Wanting to dump terrible players isn't being a bad fan, its being a good one.

Sure, everybody here would've been thrilled if Hernandez all of a sudden turned into Omar Vizquel and played well enough to deserve the job. But he was very unlikely to do that, so people didn't want to hand him the job (eerily similar to the people who don't want to rush prospects, except Hernadez was not a prospect, just a bad young player). When he was handed the job, and performed as terribly as most expected, people wanted him gone.

I don't see the problem. Nobody was calling Hernandez a baby rapist. We were just calling him what he is, or more namely is not, a Major League caliber baseball player.

Bynum at least has a tiny bit of upside. He's performed terribly as well and i'd be thrilled if we replaced him with a better option. But I do think Bynum can fill a utility role in the future, so having him on the team now isn't as much of a travesty as having Hernandez around was, since I don't think there is any chance of him ever filling any role on an MLB roster.

[YardBirds13]

Was Hernandez treated any different than Steve Trachsel was?

Wanting to dump terrible players isn't being a bad fan, its being a good one.

Sure, everybody here would've been thrilled if Hernandez all of a sudden turned into Omar Vizquel and played well enough to deserve the job. But he was very unlikely to do that, so people didn't want to hand him the job (eerily similar to the people who don't want to rush prospects, except Hernadez was not a prospect, just a bad young player). When he was handed the job, and performed as terribly as most expected, people wanted him gone.

I don't see the problem. Nobody was calling Hernandez a baby rapist. We were just calling him what he is, or more namely is not, a Major League caliber baseball player.

Bynum at least has a tiny bit of upside. He's performed terribly as well and i'd be thrilled if we replaced him with a better option. But I do think Bynum can fill a utility role in the future, so having him on the team now isn't as much of a travesty as having Hernandez around was, since I don't think there is any chance of him ever filling any role on an MLB roster.

Speak for yourself....

:laughlol:

[Mashed Potatoes]

One thing I will say about Luis is that he loves the game, is happy playing the game and really tries his best.

Not if you consider part of the game preparation. This guy was undeservedly handed the starting job as short stop of the Baltimore Orioles. He was so excited about the opportunity to live his dream that he...showed up to camp out of shape! I think being overweight was largely responsible for his drop in defensive play.

Luis has been the subject of far too much discussion, some of the criticisms unwarranted, although certainly nothing to the extent of rshack's ridiculous hyperbole. But can we drop this romantic image of LH as this hard-working throwback all-glove no-hit short stop? He's a slightly above average defensive short stop with a terrible bat, who chose not work hard in order to seize his moment.

I'm just happy that he'll eventually leave this board as a topic of conversation, ad nauseum doesn't even to begin to describe it!

[NewMarketSean]

Once baby rapist was dropped, I started holding my breath until this thread is locked. And being a LH appreciation thread, I couldn't imagine any other outcome.

[YardBirds13]

Not if you consider part of the game preparation. This guy was undeservedly handed the starting job as short stop of the Baltimore Orioles. He was so excited about the opportunity to live his dream that he...showed up to camp out of shape! I think being overweight was largely responsible for his drop in defensive play.

Luis has been the subject of far too much discussion, some of the criticisms unwarranted, although certainly nothing to the extent of rshack's ridiculous hyperbole. But can we drop this romantic image of LH as this hard-working throwback all-glove no-hit short stop? He's a slightly above average defensive short stop with a terrible bat, who chose not work hard in order to seize his moment.

I'm just happy that he'll eventually leave this board as a topic of conversation, ad nauseum doesn't even to begin to describe it!

Yea, screw Luis Hernandez!!! I hope he never makes it back to the big leagues!! Hard worker?? Blah! He showed up to camp out of shape!!!

[Mackus]

He was so excited about the opportunity to live his dream that he...showed up to camp out of shape! I think being overweight was largely responsible for his drop in defensive play.

I never really bought the reports saying he was 20 lbs overweight (even saw 30 in one). That's an awful lot of weight to gain in 6 months for a professional athlete, and I never thought he looked any bigger this year than last year.

I think he just struggled with the glove. He didn't do any differently with the bat than anybody expected. He actually might've been even a little bit better than some of the more pessimistic (mine) expectations.

He just had a defensive slump. He was worse defensively this season than I think he would be normally. He was better defensively last season than I think he would be normally.

He only played at about league average defensively this year, and I do think he's much better than that. He's not the Ozzie Smith that he appeared to be last season, but I do think he's very good with the glove.

He's just so awful with the bat that it doesn't matter how good he is defensively, it'd be damn near impossible to make up for it.

[Lucky Jim]

Except that Drungo is right, in that a vast majority of people do think pretty much what he is saying. He is also one of the most well-respected posters on this board, and you are well....not.

This is pretty uncalled for. Shack is actually right - there's a personal tinge to much of what is said about LH. Folks calling him "trash" etc.

Now, this may only be re: his baseball skills (allegedly) but the connotation radiates outward. I've found myself defending him numerous times. And I didn't really even want him as SS.

That said, this whole dialog is tiresome. Shack continues to tilt at statistical windmills. He just needs to remember that futility and nobility go hand in hand if you're going to be quixotic.

[RShack]

Except that Drungo is right, in that a vast majority of people do think pretty much what he is saying. He is also one of the most well-respected posters on this board, and you are well....not.

And, like Drungo, when you don't have an argument, you abandon actual content and change the subject to making things personal. Makes for a great discussion that way. Well done.

If you believe the issue about LH was Actual Baseball Performance, please explain how LH routinely got reamed even before the season started, while Bynum seems well-liked despite performing worse than LH did. Is this because LH did anything bad while Bynum did something good?

[Lucky Jim]

And, like Drungo, when you don't have an argument, you abandon actual content and change the subject to making things personal. Makes for a great discussion that way. Well done.

If you believe the issue about LH was Actual Baseball Performance, please explain how LH routinely got reamed even before the season started, while Bynum seems well-liked despite performing worse than LH did. Is this because LH did anything bad while Bynum did something good?

Because LH was perceived as an actual threat to start. Bynum wasn't. Silly us.

[Mackus]

If you believe the issue about LH was Actual Baseball Performance, please explain how LH routinely got reamed even before the season started, while Bynum seems well-liked despite performing worse than LH did. Is this because LH did anything bad while Bynum did something good?

Hernandez got reamed before the season started because his past history suggested he would be terrible. And again while people were calling him a terrible player and not worthy of an MLB roster spot, that is not personal attacks, just the truth.

Bynum being "well-liked" is just your opinion. I don't think there is a single person on the board who thinks he has more than a snowball's chance of being a long term answer at SS. But, some do think that he can be a solution at the utility position. I don't think many felt Hernandez could be a solution even at the utility spot.

Bynum's past history also showed that while he's not good with the bat, he's at least not the black hole that Hernandez is. He hasn't hit well this season, but he's at lesat done well in the past, both in the minors and the majors, Hernandez never had.

I think you are purposefully overstating how much people "like" Freddy Bynum on here to try and help your point.

[El Gordo]

This is pretty uncalled for. Shack is actually right - there's a personal tinge to much of what is said about LH. Folks calling him "trash" etc.

Now, this may only be re: his baseball skills (allegedly) but the connotation radiates outward. I've found myself defending him numerous times. And I didn't really even want him as SS.

That said, this whole dialog is tiresome. Shack continues to tilt at statistical windmills. He just needs to remember that futility and nobility go hand in hand if you're going to be quixotic.

Well, if I had to chose between being characterized as Don Quixoti and Robespierre, I know which one I'd choose.

[Frobby]

As is your tendency to speak for the entire board.

The merits (or lack thereof) of LH is a different issue than the way he was treated around here.

The difference in the treatment of him and Bynum for very comparable performance is absurd, and IMO reflects a lot more bandwagon jumping than it does baseball judgment.

OK, I have to respond here.

First of all, I'm sorry that any of this has crept into the Luis Hernandez Appreciation Thread. To me, these threads should be used to express appreciatiosn for a player's positive attributes and contributions (and surely LH had some), and other debates should be conducted elsewhere.

Second, if LH has been kicked around here, it is for historical reasons, not related to dislike of LH personally and completely irrelevant to Bynum. He has been kicked around because:

1. Some posters suggested last year that the O's were better off overall with LH at SS than with Tejada.

2. Some posters suggested last year that LH was a gold-glove quality SS and therefore could be carried as a starter even if his offense was very poor.

Both those suggestions were very far-fetched and sparked a lot of debate, not directed at LH in my opinion but at the posters who expressed those opinions.

Nobody ever said we'd be better off with Bynum at SS than Tejada, or that Bynum was a gold-glove SS. In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone argue that, in the long run, Bynum is likely to be as good a defensive SS as Hernandez. Really, all his advocates have said is that he should be a better hitter than LH, and that the offensive differential more than makes up for any advantage LH has defensively. I'd certainly make that argument, although right now Bynum's offensive numbers are not any better than LH's. Bynum's track record in the majors and minors, compared to LH, certainly suggests he'll be a substantially better hitter than LH, even if that isn't true at the moment.

If people seem to be taking it easy on Bynum now, it's becuase they had pretty low expectations in the first place, and nobody was arguing otherwise.