Duquette says O's discussed long term deal with Schoop in offseason

[TradeAngelos]

 

Yet not even a conversation on the Machado front. Why am I not the least bit surprised?

[Can_of_corn]

It's going to cost a lot more this offseason than it would have last offseason.

But that's the way the O's like to do it.

 

[TradeAngelos]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's going to cost a lot more this offseason than it would have last offseason.

But that's the way the O's like to do it.

 

Of course. Lowball him and watch the price go up, the Oriole way.

But with 2 years left of control after this year it would still be cheap by normal standards. And might still be enticing to him. That big money is a ways off still. Lot can happen in 2 years, and he could be perceived as "peaking" right now and value pretty high if he puts in a 4 win season. 

With that said I have zero confidence anything will get done. Never has with a significant player under control before that I can remember, probably never will. 

[baltfan]

It is easy to assume the Orioles were cheap with Schoop, but things are complicated.  Going into the season, Tillman, Machado, Schoop, and to a lesser extent, Britton, all were candidates for extensions.  Spend too much on Schoop and maybe that affects your ability to keep one of the others.  They thought they would be contenders, so they probably figured if Schoop beat expectations it would just be toward helping them into the playoffs.

The way things have turned out has made things complicated.  However, people shouldn't forget that Schoop's OBP generally is mediocre at best as is his range.  There are a lot of good second baseman out there.  

 

[TradeAngelos]

17 minutes ago, baltfan said:

It is easy to assume the Orioles were cheap with Schoop, but things are complicated.  Going into the season, Tillman, Machado, Schoop, and to a lesser extent, Britton, all were candidates for extensions.  Spend too much on Schoop and maybe that affects your ability to keep one of the others.  They thought they would be contenders, so they probably figured if Schoop beat expectations it would just be toward helping them into the playoffs.

The way things have turned out has made things complicated.  However, people shouldn't forget that Schoop's OBP generally is mediocre at best as is his range.  There are a lot of good second baseman out there.  

 

Comparable to Schoop at his age? Like who?  .351 OBP this year. Is he coming into his own at age 25 or is that just a blip? Good chance the former, even if he won't do that every year. What Schoop lacks in OBP he makes up for in spades with power (and let's not forget about the defense), There isn't another one close outside of Altuve and Gyorko, and they are both just a little older and more polished. Is Schoop either of those guys? Probably not but he is a top 5 2nd baseman in the game right now at worst, and getting better if this breakout season is any indication.

Of course when it is time to pay him, we say "just a good 2nd baseman, plenty out there". Actually there aren't many on his level right now. He has turned himself into a core piece and we should be doing whatever it takes to lock him up early. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, TradeAngelos said:

Comparable to Schoop at his age? Like who?  .351 OBP this year. Is he coming into his own at age 25 or is that just a blip? Good chance the former, even if he won't do that every year. What Schoop lacks in OBP he makes up for in spades with power (and let's not forget about the defense), There isn't another one close outside of Altuve and Gyorko, and they are both just a little older and more polished. Is Schoop either of those guys? Probably not but he is a top 5 2nd baseman in the game right now at worst, and getting better if this breakout season is any indication.

Of course when it is time to pay him, we say "just a good 2nd baseman, plenty out there". Actually there aren't many on his level right now. He has turned himself into a core piece and we should be doing whatever it takes to lock him up early. 

His BOP is buoyed by unsustainable HBP numbers. 

And really his defense isn't exceptional.

[LA2]

47 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

Of course. Lowball him and watch the price go up, the Oriole way.

But with 2 years left of control after this year it would still be cheap by normal standards. And might still be enticing to him. That big money is a ways off still. Lot can happen in 2 years, and he could be perceived as "peaking" right now and value pretty high if he puts in a 4 win season. 

With that said I have zero confidence anything will get done. Never has with a significant player under control before that I can remember, probably never will. 

Wasn't that what they did with Markakis, B-Rob, and Adam?

[Frobby]

Schoop is 4th in fWAR at 2B right now.     I think this is about his ceiling, though.   

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LA2 said:

Wasn't that what they did with Markakis, B-Rob, and Adam?

How many of them were during their arb 1 season?  Or better yet before they hit arbitration?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Schoop is 4th in fWAR at 2B right now.     I think this is about his ceiling, though.   

Might could flip him for a pretty decent SP.

[LA2]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

How many of them were during their arb 1 season?  Or better yet before they hit arbitration?

I don't know. But the question was about whether they were still under team control.

[TradeAngelos]

3 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Wasn't that what they did with Markakis, B-Rob, and Adam?

Jones had 2 more years service time than Schoop does now.

Markakis they did it with, 10 years ago.

B-Rob...nope. 

So they have done in once on the history of the franchise. I stand corrected.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, LA2 said:

I don't know. But the question was about whether they were still under team control.

I was touching back on my prior point about them waiting.  They are not proactive about this sort of thing.

You could also add Hardy to your list, twice and O'Day once.

[TradeAngelos]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was touching back on my prior point about them waiting.  They are not proactive about this sort of thing.

You could also add Hardy to your list, twice and O'Day once.

Roberts, Hardy and O'Day were all 30 plus and relatively cheap contracts. Schoop is 25 and a budding star. Completely different set of circumstances. 

[backwardsk]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I was touching back on my prior point about them waiting.  They are not proactive about this sort of thing.

You could also add Hardy to your list, twice and O'Day once.

What extension figures do you approach Bundy and Mancini with this winter?