Edwin Jackson

[wildbillhiccup]

Edwin Jackson is a ticking time bomb. This success won't last...it's just a matter of time before he implodes. 

[El Gordo]

Rather get Gonzo back. Always liked the cold killer.

[joelala]

44 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Rather get Gonzo back. Always liked the cold killer.

But we wouldn't have had to give up anything to get Jackson...And his ERA is more than a run lower than Gonzalez's. 

[PaulFolk]

Jackson hasn't had a good season as a starting pitcher since 2012. The Orioles didn't miss anything. Kudos to him for having six good starts, but he's a fringe major leaguer at this point.

[Chavez Ravine]

MLB pitching is a wonderwall. The only consistent solution seems to be pouring money down the hole in hopes something floats to the surface.  The Dodgers are still paying Scott Kazmir by the way.

[Cumberbundy]

20 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Jackson hasn't had a good season as a starting pitcher since 2012. The Orioles didn't miss anything. Kudos to him for having six good starts, but he's a fringe major leaguer at this point.

We are trying to trade for guys who offer exactly what Edwin is giving Washington. Imo It's preposterous to seriously talk O's baseball & brush off the fact that we are giving up prospects for production we let go of, again.

 

[joelala]

59 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

Jackson hasn't had a good season as a starting pitcher since 2012. The Orioles didn't miss anything. Kudos to him for having six good starts, but he's a fringe major leaguer at this point.

The stats would say we're missing somethings thats been worth more than Hellickson, Miley, and Ubaldo in the second half...

I'm not at all trying to say he's actually a sub 3.0 ERA pitcher, but it just makes me laugh when we GAVE UP an asset to get Hellickson, who by the way is having a pretty fun night right now throwing batting practice.

 

44 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

We are trying to trade for guys who offer exactly what Edwin is giving Washington. Imo It's preposterous to seriously talk O's baseball & brush off the fact that we are giving up prospects for production we let go of, again.

 

Yup.  Preposterous indeed. 

[PaulFolk]

3 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

We are trying to trade for guys who offer exactly what Edwin is giving Washington. Imo It's preposterous to seriously talk O's baseball & brush off the fact that we are giving up prospects for production we let go of, again.

 

To me it's preposterous to suggest that the Orioles "missed something" with a 15-year veteran who has played for 12 different teams and has stunk for the majority of them. The last time Jackson had even a league-average ERA+ as a starter was the last time he played for the Nationals, five years ago. There was no earthly reason to believe he'd have any success as a SP for the Orioles, especially after his horrible three-game relief audition.

This isn't some young prospect that the Orioles failed to develop. He doesn't fall into the Arrieta/Bridwell category. Jackson is the very definition of a journeyman, a guy who gets picked up and discarded at the drop of a hat (in fact he's one team away from tying the all-time record for most teams played for).

It's nice that Jackson is having success in six starts for the Nationals, but it's six starts, and in the NL at that. I'm confident in saying he wouldn't be having the same success if he'd made six starts for the Orioles, and not because they did something wrong.

[Cumberbundy]

Just now, PaulFolk said:

To me it's preposterous to suggest that the Orioles "missed something" with a 15-year veteran who has played for 12 different teams and has stunk for the majority of them. The last time Jackson had even a league-average ERA+ as a starter was the last time he played for the Nationals, five years ago. There was no earthly reason to believe he'd have any success as a SP for the Orioles, especially after his horrible three-game relief audition.

This isn't some young prospect that the Orioles failed to develop. He doesn't fall into the Arrieta/Bridwell category. Jackson is the very definition of a journeyman, a guy who gets picked up and discarded at the drop of a hat (in fact he's one team away from tying the all-time record for most teams played for).

It's nice that Jackson is having success in six starts for the Nationals, but it's six starts, and in the NL at that. I'm confident in saying he wouldn't be having the same success if he'd made six starts for the Orioles, and not because they did something wrong.

As we look for Edwin Jackson & trade preseason top 10 prospects for lesser arms. We didn't only make a mistake, but we've compounded it. Jackson is better than Hellickson, we gave Cleavinger up to get someone who is worse than the guy we had. We botched this badly, as we did with Bridwell, & it may cost us a playoff spot & a preseason top 10 prospect. It's simple ineptitude. Hellickson is the worst pitcher in the AL until Triggs comes back.

[PaulFolk]

1 minute ago, Cumberbundy said:

As we look for Edwin Jackson & trade preseason top 10 prospects for lesser arms. We didn't only make a mistake, but we've compounded it. Jackson is better than Hellickson, we gave Cleavinger up to get someone who is worse than the guy we had. We botched this badly, as we did with Bridwell, & it may cost us a playoff spot & a preseason top 10 prospect. It's simple ineptitude. Hellickson is the worst pitcher in the AL until Triggs comes back.

What did you see in Jackson's performance with the Orioles, or in his recent history in the majors, that made you want to put him in the starting rotation? He made 13 starts for the Padres last year, half of them at cavernous Petco, and had a 5.89 ERA. Before that, the last time he started was with the Cubs in 2013-2014, and he had a 5.58 ERA those two years combined.

This is 20/20 hindsight. Nobody as far as I can remember was calling for Edwin Jackson as a legitimate solution for the Orioles' starting rotation this year. Releasing Edwin Jackson is not costing the Orioles a playoff spot.

[thezeroes]

10 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

Cleavinger

The pitcher that has a 7.36 ERA and a 2.045 WHIP at AA Reading????

Now that is a GREAT loss for the Orioles.

[Cumberbundy]

3 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

The pitcher that has a 7.36 ERA and a 2.045 WHIP at AA Reading????

Now that is a GREAT loss for the Orioles.

Quite a sample size, has a guy ever bounced back from a poor 7 innings? I imagine so. You don't trade any talent for guys like Hellickson, particularly not when you're in the position the O's are in. You can defend the indefensible, obviously. It was an inexcusable move that made us a lesser organization. That's reality. There is zero chance Hellickson helps Baltimore win a WS on this contract, there is a chance Cleavinger could have helped us. You don't trade something for nothing. -EV Dan.

 

 

[Cumberbundy]

You can't defend trading the guy described at prospect 8 in the article below for Hellickson. It's nearly impossible to appropriately describe how atrocious Hellickson is. 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/1/13/14265522/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2017

[Cumberbundy]

13 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

What did you see in Jackson's performance with the Orioles, or in his recent history in the majors, that made you want to put him in the starting rotation? He made 13 starts for the Padres last year, half of them at cavernous Petco, and had a 5.89 ERA. Before that, the last time he started was with the Cubs in 2013-2014, and he had a 5.58 ERA those two years combined.

This is 20/20 hindsight. Nobody as far as I can remember was calling for Edwin Jackson as a legitimate solution for the Orioles' starting rotation this year. Releasing Edwin Jackson is not costing the Orioles a playoff spot.

Nothing. Get rid of him. Don't get Hellickson. If you need a starter to eat innings, keep Jackson & Cleavinger & use that slot money elsewhere. Edwin pitched in NY while they were hot. I do wonder why he was so much better in the minors for Washington than he was for us. 

Better question, why would anyone trade for Hellickson. Edwin isn't good. Bridwell isn't good. Hellickson isn't good. Miley isn't good. Unfortunately Bridwell & Jackson are better than the guys we replaced them with. We don't participate in the most talent rich part of the process. We simply can't give lefties who throw 97 for a couple months of a dude who is no better than what we just released. Hellickson is grotesque. If we want arms to give Bundy rest, there's zero reason to think Hellickson would offer much more than Jackson. Dan made us worse today & in the future, I'm against both of those things, I'd prefer to be better. It feels like Duq makes moves just to make moves sometimes. The Hellickson trade displays a complete lack of awareness & foresight. Meanwhile a much better team is getting much better innings from a guy we let go. I imagine Hellickson could have been had by Washington. They preferred Jackson for free. Me too.

[Number5]

7 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

You can't defend trading the guy described at prospect 8 in the article below for Hellickson. It's nearly impossible to appropriately describe how atrocious Hellickson is. 

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/1/13/14265522/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2017

Do you realize that you are actually criticizing the Orioles for letting Edwin Jackson go and also criticizing them for taking a shot on Hellickson in the same thread?  It is hard to take what you say seriously when you complain in hindsight without any consistency in your consideration of how the players looked at the times of the transactions.  Of the two pitchers, Hellickson had, by far, the better recent track record.  No contest, really.