Buck lays into Mountcastle during "reassignment to minor camp" and possible new position?

[Luke-OH]

I’m glad Mountcastle is being coached to be more selective, but I honestly don’t like that it was made public. I don’t know the guy, so I don’t know what his attitude is like but I’m ok with a laid back personality as long as he works at his craft (which I haven’t heard any complaints about).

So this guy who has been coached to “learn what he can’t hit”, he is 20 and having a breakout season, as arguably the best hitter in the Carolina league. He gets promoted to Bowie while they are trying to get into the Eastern league playoffs, he’s moved to a position he’s never played. He’s 4 years younger than the average pitcher, immediately his teammates are pissed off by his play at 3B and resent him to some degree according to things @Legend_Of_Joey has said. I don’t see how struggling at a new position as one of the youngest players in a league is his fault. I guarantee he’s not out there thinking I’m going to waste this AB or not play well at 3B, he’s trying his best to keep his head above water. His approach has improved this spring, he’s recognizing break better, and swinging at less garbage. 

I have a hard time blaming him for laughing things off, what do you want him to do, cry about it. I watched him play in Bowie, he cared about his performance, he was trying his best. Yeah, he should be coached that because his bat is so dangerous pitchers are going to try and stay out of the zone and that he needs to take walks to keep guys honest, but to call him out through the beat writer, that’s a bit much IMO. Maybe there’s something I don’t know and he’s hasn’t been working hard, but he seems like a guy who cares a lot about his performance and hates making outs.

[Ruzious]

Should any of this be a surprise?  Kid's had success all of his life being aggressive one way.  He finally gets to a level that he needs to adjust to.  He's 20 years old, so he's got to be told more than once.  Unless he's stupid, that's going to sink in.  That's what coaching and the minors are for.    

[tntoriole]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think it is good business to embarrass any of your employees in public.

In that sense, Mountcastle is not yet a highly paid employee and a veteran that Buck has been to war with over many, many games.  He is an indentured servant.   And the key point is that Buck did not embarrass him.  At all.  He gave him something he will always be able to remember and to talk about with his friends and family...lol.    If Buck talked about Chris Davis in that same fashion, it would have solely been embarrassing to him.     Sometimes, pies in the face can be enriching and motivating.  Sometimes, they can be a distraction and a pain in the butt...just depends on the context and the person involved. 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Of course ultimately the issue with Hays was also made public.

So I guess if you aren't one of his vets it doesn't matter how you take the criticism.

Big difference in how the issue was presented.

Buck about Hays and Stewart (essentially): I gave them some advice on things to work on. It went well.

Buck on Mountcastle: I gave him some advice on what to work on. He took it as a joke so I lit a fire under him.

So Buck isn't allowed to say anything less than stellar reviews of players that are in the Orioles system, from the DSL to the MLB level?

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

I’m glad Mountcastle is being coached to be more selective, but I honestly don’t like that it was made public. I don’t know the guy, so I don’t know what his attitude is like but I’m ok with a laid back personality as long as he works at his craft (which I haven’t heard any complaints about).

So this guy who has been coached to “learn what he can’t hit”, he is 20 and having a breakout season, as arguably the best hitter in the Carolina league. He gets promoted to Bowie while they are trying to get into the Eastern league playoffs, he’s moved to a position he’s never played. He’s 4 years younger than the average pitcher, immediately his teammates are pissed off by his play at 3B and resent him to some degree according to things @Legend_Of_Joey has said. I don’t see how struggling at a new position as one of the youngest players in a league is his fault. I guarantee he’s not out there thinking I’m going to waste this AB or not play well at 3B, he’s trying his best to keep his head above water. His approach has improved this spring, he’s recognizing break better, and swinging at less garbage. 

I have a hard time blaming him for laughing things off, what do you want him to do, cry about it. I watched him play in Bowie, he cared about his performance, he was trying his best. Yeah, he should be coached that because his bat is so dangerous pitchers are going to try and stay out of the zone and that he needs to take walks to keep guys honest, but to call him out through the beat writer, that’s a bit much IMO. Maybe there’s something I don’t know and he’s hasn’t been working hard, but he seems like a guy who cares a lot about his performance and hates making outs.

Interesting take. Very unexpected. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Big difference in how the issue was presented.

Buck about Hays and Stewart (essentially): I gave them some advice on things to work on. It went well.

Buck on Mountcastle: I gave him some advice on what to work on. He took it as a joke so I lit a fire under him.

So Buck isn't allowed to say anything less than stellar reviews of players that are in the Orioles system, from the DSL to the MLB level?

No, but if you have to publicly embarrass an employee to get a reaction I think you as a leader are doing something wrong.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course ultimately the issue with Hays was also made public.

So I guess if you aren't one of his vets it doesn't matter how you take the criticism.

If you're one of the vets it's too late.  Chris Davis is no Jimmy Sheckard.  Nobody is going to radically change their approach at 32.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

If you're one of the vets it's too late.  Chris Davis is no Jimmy Sheckard.  Nobody is going to radically change their approach at 32.

Any evidence that a public dressing down is the best way to fix the problem with a 20 year old?

[Frobby]

I’m certainly fine with Buck’s feedback to Mountcastle.   As to whether to make it public, that’s a case by case decision.    My guess is Buck decided that making it public would reinforce to Mountcastle that this is extremely important and he’d better take it to heart.   I doubt he did it just to blow off steam.    

[bpilktree]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Manny and Schoop are old dogs now?

Schoop did walk 66% more this year then previous year so maybe Buck said something to him.  Jon was a different hitter this year and although he didn't walk a crazy amount of time that increase allowed him to have a big season.  You are not just going to tell a guy that does not walk much to start walking and then all the sudden they will walk 100 times.  Schoop had more walks last season in 600 Ab's then he did in the previous season and 900 Ab's.  Manny looked like he was going to be a guy with a decent walk rate two years ago with 70 walks but for whatever reason seemed to go away from that last year.  I also think a part of that was that with Davis really struggling Manny put lot more pressure on himself to try and drive guys in compared to when Davis was protecting him. 

[BohKnowsBmore]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Manny and Schoop are old dogs now?

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here.  Regardless of whether they should be "better" (an amorphous notion to some degree), both Manny and Schoop have improved with respect to plate discipline during their time in Baltimore (not to mention, they were both walking at a better clip in the minors than Mountcastle has).

Manny went from a 4.5% walk rate in 2012 (was 4.1% in 2013, his first full season) to 7.2% this past season (was as high as 9.8% in 2015).

Schoop went from a paltry 2.7% in 2014 to 5.2% this past season.  His O-swing % went down from 40.1% to 37.1% over the same timeframe (For comparison, Manny's remained pretty low, but his contact has improved).

While both could be "better" at plate discipline (they could also hit for higher averages, hit more XBH, run better and play better defense), the idea that Buck hasn't stressed the importance of getting on base to them is a bit odd to me.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Any evidence that a public dressing down is the best way to fix the problem with a 20 year old?

No, I probably wouldn't go that route.  But I'm open to different approaches to different people.  Maybe Mountcastle is the kind of guy who responds to getting ribbed on social media when his manager talks about him swinging at everything. 

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No, but if you have to publicly embarrass an employee to get a reaction I think you as a leader are doing something wrong.

Holy snikees batman. Maybe Buck should give them all participation trophies. Ridiculous.

[Rene88]

58 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I've had the impression that we've preached aggressiveness at the minor league level.    This may be a case of mixed messages.  Personally, I agree with Buck's message.

Maybe they should sign players with same philosophy? Just a thought.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m certainly fine with Buck’s feedback to Mountcastle.   As to whether to make it public, that’s a case by case decision.    My guess is Buck decided that making it public would reinforce to Mountcastle that this is extremely important and he’d better take it to heart.   I doubt he did it just to blow off steam.    

Buck doesn't do or say anything to the press by mistake.