The turning point of this collape

[turtlebowl]

Early May of 2017, the O's are off to a hot start.  After a controversial slide by Manny Machado agaist Dustin P, the Red Sox took several attempts to get even at the O's slugger.  Besides some calls to the MLB office, it seemed the O's were instructed to take the high road and accept being bullied by one of their arch rivals.  The players, especially Machado tried to stay subdued but this seemed to be Bucks instructions to not retaliate even though their star player is obviously being targeted.  After the drama ended the Orioles seemed to start sliding in the standings and finally after a little run in August they seemed to completely quit on Showalter.

Anyone here besides me believe that one event started the free fall for the team?  Did having a manager not allowing his players go to battle for Machado take away that edge needed as a competitive player? Is that the event where Showalter lost this team?

[Tx Oriole]

2 minutes ago, turtlebowl said:

Early May of 2017, the O's are off to a hot start.  After a controversial slide by Manny Machado agaist Dustin P, the Red Sox took several attempts to get even at the O's slugger.  Besides some calls to the MLB office, it seemed the O's were instructed to take the high road and accept being bullied by one of their arch rivals.  The players, especially Machado tried to stay subdued but this seemed to be Bucks instructions to not retaliate even though their star player is obviously being targeted.  After the drama ended the Orioles seemed to start sliding in the standings and finally after a little run in August they seemed to completely quit on Showalter.

Anyone here besides me believe that one event started the free fall for the team?  Did having a manager not allowing his players go to battle for Machado take away that edge needed as a competitive player? Is that the event where Showalter lost this team?

No I don't believe it. Buck was right. You don't retaliate. If they had retaliated then Boston would have hit an Oriole. Then we hit one of theirs. Where does that get you? Hurt players. 

[Dark Helmet]

Buck started losing the team when he saved Britton for a save chance that never happened. Last years slide was just bad play and horrible pitching. You play to win, regardless if you like your manager or not.

[atomic]

3 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

No I don't believe it. Buck was right. You don't retaliate. If they had retaliated then Boston would have hit an Oriole. Then we hit one of theirs. Where does that get you? Hurt players. 

He was wrong.  Then they hit your players all the time to intimidate them.

[turtlebowl]

1 minute ago, Dark Helmet said:

Buck started losing the team when he saved Britton for a save chance that never happened. Last years slide was just bad play and horrible pitching. You play to win, regardless if you like your manager or not.

Up until the point Buck always seemed to get more out of the roster than what you would think.  I never thought he was a great in game manager but I always thought he created a chemistry that allowed the teams to excel.  Obviously this disaster can't be all linked to one event but I think it is possible a little edge was lost.  Plus you have to wonder what other manager wouldn't allow their players to protect a star player on their roster.

[MongoBoy]

25 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Safe to say that Manny will be the lone rep this year at the AS game in DC. You going?We will be there. 

He will be bringing his bags with him and not returning to Baltimore.

[webbrick2010]

17 minutes ago, turtlebowl said:

2 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I think Weiters had a big impact in clubhouse. When he left, something big changed and not for the better.

n Showalter. 

Anyone here besides me believe that one event started the free fall for the team?  Did having a manager not allowing his players go to battle for Machado take away that edge needed as a competitive player? Is that the event where Showalter lost this team?

 

 

2 minutes ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I think Weiters had a big impact in clubhouse. When he left, something big changed and not for the better.

How about we bring back Weiters to manage.

[turtlebowl]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

He was wrong.  Then they hit your players all the time to intimidate them.

The most disturbing thing to me was how Showalter never got tossed when this all played out.  Okay, I don't want my players hurt so I told them no retaliation.  I am however going to go onto the field when he gets thrown at and challenge everyone.  I;m pointing a finger into the Red Sox dugout and saying enough.  I expect that his passive attitude toward what was going on had to rub some the wrong way.

[AndresMora]

No turning point was needed.  This team simply lacks talent or ownership interested in winning.  All Angelos wants is to put an "OK" product on the field.  He views this as entertainment, not striving for a championship.  Now, their best player. and maybe the best player in baseball right now, is going to leave.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Schoop and Jones go, too.  Remember when Baltimore was a place free agents wanted to avoid?  Well, it's back big time.  No, we're in for a long dreary stretch here.  I would like to see Davis play every day, though.  Maybe he can be the first guy with 500-600 AB's to hit below .100.

[atomic]

7 minutes ago, turtlebowl said:

The most disturbing thing to me was how Showalter never got tossed when this all played out.  Okay, I don't want my players hurt so I told them no retaliation.  I am however going to go onto the field when he gets thrown at and challenge everyone.  I;m pointing a finger into the Red Sox dugout and saying enough.  I expect that his passive attitude toward what was going on had to rub some the wrong way.

We need a manager like Earl Weaver again. A guy who follows stats closely, who goes to bat for his players, and who holds his players accountable. 

[joelala]

14 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

 

 

How about we bring back Weiters to manage.

You may be joking, but I think he will be a manager someday and I would love for it to be here.

[AndresMora]

Showalter just isn't that bright despite the media thinking he's some sort of guru.

[joelala]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

I thought it was when Peter Angelos bought the team.

Best post of the day.

[atomic]

16 minutes ago, joelala said:

You may be joking, but I think he will be a manager someday and I would love for it to be here.

Player coach next season. 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I thought it started when Jeremy Hellickson didn’t like the postgame spread following their walkoff win against the Yankees on Sept. 5.    He said he was sick of having spicy hummus with the veggie tray every damned night, and that just killed the morale of the team and the rest is history.  

 

So what are the Nats' feeding him? In 43 innings, he has an ERA of 2.30 and a WHIP of .93. I know it's the National League, but still. Is it no hummus and veggies at all for Nats players, or do they just alternate it with other stuff?