Orioles to be more active in International Free Agent Market

[Yardball85]

6 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

At some point, you offer your max amount, put a 24 h limit on it and they either take it or just publically announce you are done and stop this letting them use us as the village idiots for leverage with tne team that they clearly want to sign with.  

Agreed.

[Ohfan67]

10 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

At some point, you offer your max amount, put a 24 h limit on it and they either take it or just publically announce you are done and stop this letting them use us as the village idiots for leverage with tne team that they clearly want to sign with.  

Why? There's no deadline. If the Orioles have a strong idea of what each prospect is worth, then there's no point in ending the negotiation on an arbitrary deadline. I think things are moving along...the Marlins are making trades pretty fast. They can only get a fixed amount more cash. The process will end when the Marlins reach their end and then the two teams divvy up the players with the money available. 

[Chavez Ravine]

5 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Could and should.  Make him say no to the entire allotment. 

At this point, the Orioles haven't misplayed this. Unlike the Marlins they haven't traded away 17, 19, and 22 year old talents, or a solid arbitration controlled relief pitcher. They did get less for Gausman, but it is unclear exactly how much less, partly because they dumped a chunk of salary as well. They have the chits to dare one of these dudes to take significantly less money to not sign with them. Because of the hard cap,  the money by itself is relatively inconsequential even to a team like the Orioles. So compared to the Marlins we are playing with way more of the house's  money at the moment.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Chavez Ravine said:

At this point, the Orioles haven't misplayed this. Unlike the Marlins they haven't traded away 17, 19, and 22 year old talents, or a solid arbitration controlled relief pitcher. They did get less for Gausman, but it is unclear exactly how much less, partly because they dumped a chunk of salary as well. They have the chits to dare one of these dudes to take significantly less money to not sign with them. Because of the hard cap,  the money by itself is relatively inconsequential even to a team like the Orioles. So compared to the Marlins we are playing with way more of the house's  money at the moment.

How is sending the Phillies 750K for Jack not a misplay?

[Yardball85]

1 minute ago, Chavez Ravine said:

At this point, the Orioles haven't misplayed this. Unlike the Marlins they haven't traded away 17, 19, and 22 year old talents, or a solid arbitration controlled relief pitcher. They did get less for Gausman, but it is unclear exactly how much less, partly because they dumped a chunk of salary as well. They have the chits to dare one of these dudes to take significantly less money to not sign with them. Because of the hard cap,  the money by itself is relatively inconsequential even to a team like the Orioles. So compared to the Marlins we are playing with way more of the house's  money at the moment.

Perhaps, but that doesn't address my point that the Orioles should offer VVM the entire amount (or less if he wants some of it to go to his brother) and see what happens.  And like you said, I think they do have something to lose since the stupid Gausman trade was, to many of us, only somewhat forgivable because of the slot $$.

[Chavez Ravine]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

How is sending the Phillies 750K for Jack not a misplay?

Well, I am ignoring that bit

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Why? There's no deadline. If the Orioles have a strong idea of what each prospect is worth, then there's no point in ending the negotiation on an arbitrary deadline. I think things are moving along...the Marlins are making trades pretty fast. They can only get a fixed amount more cash. The process will end when the Marlins reach their end and then the two teams divvy up the players with the money available. 

How much more cash can the Marlins get?  Why not strategically pressure their agents to risk losing a bunch of money by not signing with us?  Instead we just let the Marlins continue to accumulate the necessary dollars, and now they get the players probably.  If instead we had told the agents this was our max, here is what we were offering  back before the Marlins started accumulating these extra dollars by trade, maybe we could have overwhelmed the Marlins offer early on and then maybe they would have signed rather than risk getting a lot less if we had backed away weeks ago.  Because if we had pulled out then,  they certainly were going to get a lot less from the Marlins at that point than they are now.   Either way, we are the most inept deal making organization in baseball.  We bid against ourselves, seldom do anything strategic, just plod along and wait till it all plays out. 

Or maybe I have just lost patience with the whole situation. 

[Chavez Ravine]

3 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Perhaps, but that doesn't address my point that the Orioles should offer VVM the entire amount (or less if he wants some of it to go to his brother) and see what happens.  And like you said, I think they do have something to lose since the stupid Gausman trade was, to many of us, only somewhat forgivable because of the slot $$.

I certainly think they could offer one of them all or most of it. That works against the Marlins going for the trifecta.....or even just the Mesa double.  Who knows, but I sort of think the assumption that the Mesas would go as a package deal is old history. 

[weams]

14 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

How much more cash can the Marlins get?  Why not strategically pressure their agents to risk losing a bunch of money by not signing with us?  Instead we just let the Marlins continue to accumulate the necessary dollars, and now they get the players probably.  If instead we had told the agents this was our max, here is what we were offering  back before the Marlins started accumulating these extra dollars by trade, maybe we could have overwhelmed the Marlins offer early on and then maybe they would have signed rather than risk getting a lot less if we had backed away weeks ago.  Because if we had pulled out then,  they certainly were going to get a lot less from the Marlins at that point than they are now.   Either way, we are the most inept deal making organization in baseball.  We bid against ourselves, seldom do anything strategic, just plod along and wait till it all plays out. 

Or maybe I have just lost patience with the whole situation. 

They could be the Mets. 

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, weams said:

The Gausman trade saved a great amount of money. Not as much as the Marlins Yelich trade though. 

I’d say the Brewers will be happy to pay Yelich 5/$58.25 mm for 2018-22.   Per Fangraphs he was worth $60.9 mm this season, and look where the Brewers are thanks largely to him.    I do not expect the Braves to get that out of Gausman.

[Yardball85]

16 minutes ago, Chavez Ravine said:

I certainly think they could offer one of them all or most of it. That works against the Marlins going for the trifecta.....or even just the Mesa double.  Who knows, but I sort of think the assumption that the Mesas would go as a package deal is old history. 

Fair enough.  I may still be operating under the package deal assumption.

[tntoriole]

5 minutes ago, weams said:

They could be the Mets. 

At least it is juicier than what we get in the Sun or MASN...lol

 

https://nypost.com/2018/10/15/empty-vows-alderson-back-stab-inside-mets-gm-search-mess/

[Ohfan67]

19 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

How much more cash can the Marlins get?  Why not strategically pressure their agents to risk losing a bunch of money by not signing with us?  Instead we just let the Marlins continue to accumulate the necessary dollars, and now they get the players probably.  If instead we had told the agents this was our max, here is what we were offering  back before the Marlins started accumulating these extra dollars by trade, maybe we could have overwhelmed the Marlins offer early on and then maybe they would have signed rather than risk getting a lot less if we had backed away weeks ago.  Because if we had pulled out then,  they certainly were going to get a lot less from the Marlins at that point than they are now.   Either way, we are the most inept deal making organization in baseball.  We bid against ourselves, seldom do anything strategic, just plod along and wait till it all plays out. 

Or maybe I have just lost patience with the whole situation. 

Both! Orioles fans have every right to be frustrated. I am and lose my mind about some things. I’m happy, however, that the Angelos boys and whomever they hire are likely to take the international market seriously, etc., so I have a little hope. I am not emotionally attached to these prospects because the Orioles jumped in the game so late, the players seem good but not great, etc. I have low expectations, but now have a little hope for the future. This negotiation is really from the past administration and is being conducted while they are searching for new leadership. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if something happens, but if not it’s definitely on the old guard. But I do feel your pain on most issues. I’m just chill on these prospects. 

[weams]

5 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

At least it is juicier than what we get in the Sun or MASN...lol

 

https://nypost.com/2018/10/15/empty-vows-alderson-back-stab-inside-mets-gm-search-mess/

There is still Bernie Madoff money there as well. 

[atomic]

4 hours ago, SteveA said:

As others have said, DD might have thought they had enough to get the Mesa's without it.

Also, the deal happened right about the time that it was determined that Trumbo was choosing surgery and out for the year.   Is it POSSIBLE that we had a deal lined up where we were going to toss in some international$ with Trumbo to unload his contract on someone?   But his decision to have surgery nixed that possibility?

Just putting it out there, the timing works out.   Trumbo didn't announce his decision to have surgery until a day or two after the Zoellner deal, but he could have told the Orioles, or it could have become obvious to the Orioles' doctors, that he was going to have the surgery.

No one was trading for Trumbo.  More likely when Adam wasnt traded the internal budget to sign Mesa was cut.