Orioles select SS Richie Martin with 1st pick of Rule 5 Draft

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know, especially on a slow Friday, that's a challenge.  Most exposure of < 50 OPS+ players on a winning team.  Or maybe just most sub-replacement starters on a winning team.

David Eckstein, Cardinals.  Off the top of my head, but while he was a lightweight he probably wasn't as bad as I remember.

[Moose Milligan]

47 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know, especially on a slow Friday, that's a challenge.  Most exposure of < 50 OPS+ players on a winning team.  Or maybe just most sub-replacement starters on a winning team.

Tony Womack. 

I say this because I spent some time at Guilford College in Greensboro, NC.  Tony Womack went there along with Tom Zachary who gave up Babe Ruth's 60th homer in 1927.  There had been some other MLB players that came through there, mainly before 1950.  Tony Womack is probably the best to have come through there, with Zachary second.  IIRC, he also held Guilford College football records which is almost like saying I was the best kickball player in my 8th grade class.

Tony Womack lead the NL in steals three times while playing for the Pirates and it's not like he was a guy that got caught a lot either.  His SB/CS ratios are fantastic for those three years.  He also lead the league in triples once.  

Womack had moved on to Arizona by the time I met him before the 2001 season.  I was in a sports management/sports marketing class and shortly before spring training started, he came through Guilford to visit.  A little cocky but a nice enough guy.  Answered questions, I remember asking him something about their new manager, Bob Brenly, and how he thought he'd be different than Buck Showalter.  I can't believe I didn't ask him about Randy Johnson.  Anyway, Tony stayed for the whole class.  A good dude, I liked him.

So it was a thrill to see him later on that fall in a big moment for the Diamondbacks in the World Series.  Womack ripped a double off Rivera that tied the game at 2-2 in the 9th inning of Game 7.

Womack was on 2nd when Luis Gonzalez hit his little duckfart over Joe Torre's drawn in infield:

 

(There's no reason to post that video other than it's nice to see the Yankees lose a WS game 7.)

Anyway, I thought all along Tony Womack was a good player until I learned more about baseball and advanced metrics.  Womack had a good career, a career that a lot of guys would be proud to have.  Played 13 years, lead the league in steals, triples, even made an All-Star team.  

But that doesn't mean Tony Womack had a great career under the spotlight of advanced metrics.  He played in 125 games for those 2001 Diamondbacks, 518 plate appearances with a 64 OPS+.   

I'm sure we can find someone lower, but that's a pretty good starting point.  

[ScGO's]

This year isn't about winning, so I don't see the concern in letting guys like Ritchie or even Davis hack it out.  I think this year is about 1) finding a couple of pieces off the scrap heap to keep for next year when we start bringing a few prospects up and 2) to see if we can create some trade value for a few of our veteran pieces. 

We have done a good job with the first goal of finding some value off the scrap heap with Severino, Nunez, Smith Jr, Means, Alberto.  Still time to evaluate guys like Ruiz, Broxton, Hess, Kline, Ynoa, Martin, Sisco, Wilkerson etc and see if they will have a spot next year before we start calling up the Hays, Diaz, Mountcastles, etc.  My guess is this offseason we will see a lot of milb players and fringe MLB types released, maybe traded.

The only trade chips we are seeing raise their value are Mancini and Cashner.  Bundy, Givens, Villar, Bleir, etc still have time but arent really helping their cases.  Cobb and Davis? HA!  Hopefully Davis is gone by next year.  I'd stick with Cobb another season.

In a year or two, some of these scrap heap finds mind end up being trade chips as well.  I am very happy with Elias so far, and as far as the current team, I am loving the overall competition level because they stay in games and have some exciting pieces, but they are just weak enough to blow most games and keep us atop the leader board for Pick #1 again next year.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, ScGO's said:

This year isn't about winning, so I don't see the concern in letting guys like Ritchie or even Davis hack it out.  I think this year is about 1) finding a couple of pieces off the scrap heap to keep for next year when we start bringing a few prospects up and 2) to see if we can create some trade value for a few of our veteran pieces. 

We have done a good job with the first goal of finding some value off the scrap heap with Severino, Nunez, Smith Jr, Means, Alberto.  Still time to evaluate guys like Ruiz, Broxton, Hess, Kline, Ynoa, Martin, Sisco, Wilkerson etc and see if they will have a spot next year before we start calling up the Hays, Diaz, Mountcastles, etc.  My guess is this offseason we will see a lot of milb players and fringe MLB types released, maybe traded.

The only trade chips we are seeing raise their value are Mancini and Cashner.  Bundy, Givens, Villar, Bleir, etc still have time but arent really helping their cases.  Cobb and Davis? HA!  Hopefully Davis is gone by next year.  I'd stick with Cobb another season.

In a year or two, some of these scrap heap finds mind end up being trade chips as well.  I am very happy with Elias so far, and as far as the current team, I am loving the overall competition level because they stay in games and have some exciting pieces, but they are just weak enough to blow most games and keep us atop the leader board for Pick #1 again next year.

I agree about Richie.  But if you want to bring up a guy like Mountcastle, you can't let Davis hack it out.  Davis hamstrings the roster, especially with the return of Trumbo on the horizon.

[ScGO's]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

I agree about Richie.  But if you want to bring up a guy like Mountcastle, you can't let Davis hack it out.  Davis hamstrings the roster, especially with the return of Trumbo on the horizon.

ahh totally forgot Trumbo was still here!!! AAHHH.  I agree though about Davis.  I believe he needs to be released quietly this offseason though.  Let him hack it out for the rest of the season in a sort of farewell tour.  Come watch Davis strikeout in your town for the last time before its finally over. Maybe run a promotion, like Davis pocket fans or something.  I would keep Mountcastle in AAA all year and start his clock next year when Davis, Trumbo are gone.  Mancini might be traded by then too.  Let Hays, Diaz, and Mountcastle play and season together a little bit in AAA this year (as long as Hays and Diaz move back up to AAA when fully healthy).

[DrungoHazewood]

Ohh... the 2012 Dodgers went 86-76 despite:
- SS Dee Gordon OPS'd .561
- Tony Gwynn Jr. OPS'd .570
- James Loney OPS'd .646 as their regular 1B
- Juan Rivera played 1B/LF, was a poor fielder and OPS'd .661

All were sub-replacement, along with several bench players and Bobby Abreu. None of them were full-time regulars, but that was part of the problem.  Andre Either was the only player on the team to get more than 505 PAs.

The 1966 Giants went 93-68.  They had:
- Hal Lanier, who OPS'd .546 in 149 games
- Len Gabrielson, OPS'd .573 in left
- Jesus Alou split time with Gabrielson in LF and OPS'd .587
- RF Ollie Brown OPS'd .622
- Cap Peterson also played some LF and OPS'd .590

In all they had eight players worth less than -0.5 wins.  But also also Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Juan Marichal, and Gaylord Perry.

The 1937 Cardinals had Bruce Ogrodowski with a 59 OPS+ as the starting catcher, Mickey Owen was the 250-PA backup catcher with a 47 OPS+, and Leo Durocher was the regular shortstop with a 38 OPS+.  They went 81-73.

the 1901 Phillies went 83-57, finished in 2nd place.  Their double-play combination was Bill Hallman and Monte Cross.  Hallman slashed .184/.236/.236 in 504 PAs.  Cross slashed .197/.281/.236 in 547 PAs.  But they had Elmer Flick and Ed Delehanty, two HOFers, in the OF along with Roy Thomas who'd hit .300 and walk 100 times a year with an 0.025 ISO.

 

[Moose Milligan]

I think James Loney was, at one point, a Sports Guy all-star.  

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think James Loney was, at one point, a Sports Guy all-star.  

I think you're right.

On a related note, Casey Kotchman is only 36 years old.  He's available!

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think you're right.

On a related note, Casey Kotchman is only 36 years old.  He's available!

How that guy didn't turn out to be the next Lou Gehrig escapes me.

[Going Underground]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think you're right.

On a related note, Casey Kotchman is only 36 years old.  He's available!

Why not just James Loney?  He is only 35.Just retired. Elias can show him the analytics and how he would hit in Camden Yards. Get her done.

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think you're right.

On a related note, Casey Kotchman is only 36 years old.  He's available!

I think SportsGuy's soul was just disturbed a little bit. He's probably somewhere trolling on someone and then perked up like the Force had a great disturbance.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

As for Martin, he's clearly not a major league player at this juncture but I feel his defense is better than his defensive metrics suggest. Still, it would not hurt my feelings if the Orioles went with Villar at SS and Alberto at 2B a bit more.

BTW, Drew Jackson is slashing just .238/.340/.377/.717 in AAA.

My assessment of Martin’s defense is that his range is better than Manny’s and he’s more fundamentally sound than Beckham.    He makes an average number of mistakes out there.   If I were to compare him to a past Orioles SS defensively, I’d probably pick Deivi Cruz, solid enough but nothing exceptional.    

[TGO]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My assessment of Martin’s defense is that his range is better than Manny’s and he’s more fundamentally sound than Beckham.    He makes an average number of mistakes out there.   If I were to compare him to a past Orioles SS defensively, I’d probably pick Deivi Cruz, solid enough but nothing exceptional.    

But with more time perhaps he can be a Cesar Izturis. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, TGO said:

But with more time perhaps he can be a Cesar Izturis. 

Izturis won the gold glove when he was Martin’s age.   Then was an all star the next year.   

[LA2]

52 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My assessment of Martin’s defense is that his range is better than Manny’s and he’s more fundamentally sound than Beckham.    He makes an average number of mistakes out there.   If I were to compare him to a past Orioles SS defensively, I’d probably pick Deivi Cruz, solid enough but nothing exceptional.    

From what I remember of Cruz, he was low-range, but sure-handed. I.e., you could depend on him to catch and throw what he got to, but he didn't get to enough. So that doesn't quite jibe with my impression of Martin, although I guess the total overall effect may be similar.