Cardinals a good match with Orioles for Sherrill

[Mike B]

Given the preference for a SS prospect, as stated in the article, perhaps Milwaukee and Escobar is a possibility? I don't think we can net Rasmus for a reliever, but if they see him as the "missing piece" for a playoff run, who knows?

Common sense tells me your right about Rasmus for Sherrill but common sense should have told the Mets not to trade Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. Here's hoping!!

[FutureOwner]

I don't see Hardy as a full blown veteran. Also, you could/would trade away a couple of prospects where you are capable, in order to fill the much needed holes, if it can.

Not saying that particular trade would work, but the idea does work. Otherwise, you are left, to some extent, with what they are doing this year -- playing revolving shortstop.

The problem is the price. SD wants a ton for Greene.

We actually have no idea what the price is for Greene. If the price is Reimold and any one player not named Arietta, Tillman, Patton or Weiters I'd pull the trigger.

Id give them Reimold and Rowell in a second, especially if we somehow come away with Rasmus.

[Stotle]

Or until he blows out his arm. TINSTAAPP. The Orioles luck with pitching should tell you that. Arrieta alone probably isn't enough to land Hardy anyway...

I really think the TINSTAAPP thing has to go -- it's misused too often. I understand the thought process behind it, but it's a bit gimmicky and simplistic.

Tell me what organizations think of Price, Kershaw, Porcello, Tillman, Hellickson, etc. These are players with legit value and elite ML potential. TINSTAAPP originated as a reminder that you can't necessarily depend on pitching prospects making it to the ML or avoiding injury. However, that does not mean pitching prospects do not have immense value, or that they should be made expendable because there is a "greater risk" they hit a pitfall.

By your application of TINSTAAPP, all of the elite prospects I mentioned above should be available for a solid MLer -- maybe a Youklis-type. This just isn't the case. I'm not putting Arrieta in that class (I personally think he ends up a very good #3 -- sort of like Burnett) but I'm not certain a trade for the likes of Hardy is a "no-brainer", and it certainly isn't a no-brainer simply because "TINSTAAPP".

[Peace21]

So when can we anticipate Sherrill being dealt? Like soon or sometime next week?

[elsid]

We actually have no idea what the price is for Greene. If the price is Reimold and any one player not named Arietta, Tillman, Patton or Weiters I'd pull the trigger.

Id give them Reimold and Rowell in a second, especially if we somehow come away with Rasmus.

Cardinals asked about Greene. They were told Rasmus + one or two more (depending on quality of prospects).

[FutureOwner]

Cardinals asked about Greene. They were told Rasmus + one or two more (depending on quality of prospects).

Everyone is going to start with Rasmus when talking to the Cards. The Pads are crazy if they think theyre getting a Rasmus like talent for Greene with the contract he has and the year he's having.

[Mike B]

Than No Rasmus no Sherrill. I know its insane. But the Cards dont have much after Rasmus.

I think you are right. Nothing can sink a team in a pennant race faster than an unreliable closer. Besides that we can always ask. Rasmus, Jones, Markakis....that would be an awesome outfield for years. Young, fast, athletic and strong. They would all be 285-25 HR types with great arms and plus defensively. I really like Sherrill but this would be too much to pass on.

[hoosiers]

Ah, the old "value will never be higher than it is right now". It's always a good laugh when the press talks in such absolutes - especially with a pitcher sporting an ERA near 4.

[FutureOwner]

Ah, the old "value will never be higher than it is right now". It's always a good laugh when the press talks in such absolutes - especially with a pitcher sporting an ERA near 4.

His ERA does not determine his value, his availability at a time when a player of his position is wanted, along with his salary, service time and recent performance in the Allstar game does.

Considering his performance just before the AS Break a lack of experience at the closer position, if he can bring us a top 25 prospect we've gotta pull the trigger, IMO.

[JTrea81]

So when can we anticipate Sherrill being dealt? Like soon or sometime next week?

If he's going to go, my bet is July 31st...

[JTrea81]

I really think the TINSTAAPP thing has to go -- it's misused too often. I understand the thought process behind it, but it's a bit gimmicky and simplistic.

Tell me what organizations think of Price, Kershaw, Porcello, Tillman, Hellickson, etc. These are players with legit value and elite ML potential. TINSTAAPP originated as a reminder that you can't necessarily depend on pitching prospects making it to the ML or avoiding injury. However, that does not mean pitching prospects do not have immense value, or that they should be made expendable because there is a "greater risk" they hit a pitfall.

Most clubs would disagree with you there, as a total of 3 top position prospects were traded for ace pitchers this offseason while numerous pitching prospects have been dealt.

Tillman, Butler and Mickolio for Bedard (Jones)

Anderson, Smith for Haren (Gonzalez)

Humber, Mulvey and Guerra for Santana (Gomez)

That's 3 top position prospects and 8 top pitchers. That just goes to show that teams are more willing to give up pitching in trades, and the reason is because young pitchers are so volatile. So on one hand you should stockpile as much as you can but because of the volatility you shouldn't be afraid to trade one because said pitcher could flame out if you kept them.

Arrieta is one of those arms that you don't quite know what he's going to do yet, but he's so well known know that you might be able to capitalize on his inflated value. If we could trade a bullpen arm for JJ. Hardy wouldn't you do that? Well that's all Arrieta might become. He hasn't even reached AA yet. At some point pitching prospects reach a certain value, and when they reach that point sometimes if you don't trade them, you are worse off because of TINSTAAPP...

[bluehens45]

Im very suprised Olney has the Angels above the Cards. The perfect situation is if AM can create a bidding war between the Cards, Halos and Brewers, esp the Cards and Brewers with being in he sae divison. Im not exactly sure what the Halos have beside Wood and Adenhart but im postive they have a deep farm. Its also nice that both the Cards and Halos are looking for other pieces as well. For the Cards a hitter to protect Pully (Scott/Huff) and the Halos the same thing. So maybe we could expand a possible trade. I would be totally blown away if we could come out of this with one of the Angels young pitchers and a SS. If the names Adenhart and Rasmus are involved (which i doubt, but it could happen) i will go freaking nuts. I could see all three teams giving up alot im hoping the Dodgers get involved as well.

[bluehens45]

Most clubs would disagree with you there, as a total of 3 top position prospects were traded for ace pitchers this offseason while numerous pitching prospects have been dealt.

Tillman, Butler and Mickolio for Bedard (Jones)

Anderson, Smith for Haren (Gonzalez)

Humber, Mulvey and Guerra for Santana (Gomez)

That's 3 top position prospects and 8 top pitchers. That just goes to show that teams are more willing to give up pitching in trades, and the reason is because young pitchers are so volatile. So on one hand you should stockpile as much as you can but because of the volatility you shouldn't be afraid to trade one because said pitcher could flame out if you kept them.

Arrieta is one of those arms that you don't quite know what he's going to do yet, but he's so well known know that you might be able to capitalize on his inflated value. If we could trade a bullpen arm for JJ. Hardy wouldn't you do that? Well that's all Arrieta might become. He hasn't even reached AA yet. At some point pitching prospects reach a certain value, and when they reach that point sometimes if you don't trade them, you are worse off because of TINSTAAPP...

Great post. As i stated earlier we would have to be nuts to not think long and hard about Arritea for Andrus or Hardy. I personally would pull the trigger on both deals. We would still have a very long list of pitching prospects headlined by Tillman and Matusz. Thats alot more then most teams can say.

[Stotle]

Most clubs would disagree with you there, as a total of 3 top position prospects were traded for ace pitchers this offseason while numerous pitching prospects have been dealt.

Tillman, Butler and Mickolio for Bedard (Jones)

Anderson, Smith for Haren (Gonzalez)

Humber, Mulvey and Guerra for Santana (Gomez)

That's 3 top position prospects and 8 top pitchers. That just goes to show that teams are more willing to give up pitching in trades, and the reason is because young pitchers are so volatile. So on one hand you should stockpile as much as you can but because of the volatility you shouldn't be afraid to trade one because said pitcher could flame out if you kept them.

Arrieta is one of those arms that you don't quite know what he's going to do yet, but he's so well known know that you might be able to capitalize on his inflated value. If we could trade a bullpen arm for JJ. Hardy wouldn't you do that? Well that's all Arrieta might become. He hasn't even reached AA yet. At some point pitching prospects reach a certain value, and when they reach that point sometimes if you don't trade them, you are worse off because of TINSTAAPP...

Josh Hamilton, Andrus, Saltalamacchia, Adam Jones, Gorkys Hernandez, Gonzalez, Gomez, LaPorta, Cardenas, Chris Carter and Sweeney have all been moved in the last year. I think your premise is incorrect. I also find it curious that BA has listed Chamberlain, Buchholz, Price, Kershaw, Hughes and Bailey all listed as top 5 MiL prospects over the last 2.5 seasons. Surely they have some value.

I agree with one of your lines of thinking -- that Arrieta's "value" may be greater based on reputation than actual projection. That said, he should be available for trade if BAL thinks he has a future in the pen or as a back-end guy, or if the value received is perceived to be higher than Arrieta's current value to your organization. He should not be available simply because he happens to be a pitcher and "who knows what will happen?".

[WebLink21]

I really think the TINSTAAPP thing has to go -- it's misused too often. I understand the thought process behind it, but it's a bit gimmicky and simplistic.

Tell me what organizations think of Price, Kershaw, Porcello, Tillman, Hellickson, etc. These are players with legit value and elite ML potential. TINSTAAPP originated as a reminder that you can't necessarily depend on pitching prospects making it to the ML or avoiding injury. However, that does not mean pitching prospects do not have immense value, or that they should be made expendable because there is a "greater risk" they hit a pitfall.

By your application of TINSTAAPP, all of the elite prospects I mentioned above should be available for a solid MLer -- maybe a Youklis-type. This just isn't the case. I'm not putting Arrieta in that class (I personally think he ends up a very good #3 -- sort of like Burnett) but I'm not certain a trade for the likes of Hardy is a "no-brainer", and it certainly isn't a no-brainer simply because "TINSTAAPP".

Very well said! I can not stand when people us the TINSTAAPP line anytime a pitching prospect is brought up.