Cardinals a good match with Orioles for Sherrill

[Flosman]

Sherrill would be the missing piece for the Cards. 23 Blown saves... Imagine how far ahead they'd be if they had converted just 18 of those 23.

Without looking at it I am sure that many of the BS were not by the closer. You know middle relief get credit for BS also.

[Mackus]

Without looking at it I am sure that many of the BS were not by the closer. You know middle relief get credit for BS also.

Also, you can get multiple blown saves per game, and not all of those blown saves lead to a loss. There is no way those 23 blown saves account for 23 losses.

[davearm]

Sherrill would be the missing piece for the Cards. 23 Blown saves... Imagine how far ahead they'd be if they had converted just 18 of those 23.

Other people have chimed in on the logical flaw here, but I just thought I'd elaborate.

The majority of those 23 "blown saves" are really better described as "blown holds" -- games where a pitcher entered the game prior to the 9th inning with a lead, but lost the lead, and thus failing to get the ball to the closer.

Now this has happened twice in the same game on two occasions, so we're talking about 21 separate games, not 23.

9 of those 21 games, the Cards went on to win anyway.

Of the 12 games in which a BS was recorded, and the Cards went on to lose, 5 of them were blown in the conventional save situation, with the pitcher entering in the 9th (or later)... Isringhausen twice, Franklin twice, and McClellan/Perez once each in the same game. The other 7 games were of the "blown hold" variety, with the lead lost in the 8th.

So having a closer with a completely perfect save record could have netted the Cards 5 additional wins.

Now George Sherrill has 6 blown saves, 5 of which have come in what I've defined as the conventional save situation -- 9th inning or later.

The O's have lost 3 of these, with one result still pending (suspended game vs. CHW).

So it would appear Sherrill has cost the O's almost as many wins (3, possibly 4) as the Cards' closers have cost them (5). Perhaps your notion that Sherrill is the critical differencemaker the Cards have to get is slightly overblown.

[Roll Tide]

Other people have chimed in on the logical flaw here, but I just thought I'd elaborate.

The majority of those 23 "blown saves" are really better described as "blown holds" -- games where a pitcher entered the game prior to the 9th inning with a lead, but lost the lead, and thus failing to get the ball to the closer.

Now this has happened twice in the same game on two occasions, so we're talking about 21 separate games, not 23.

9 of those 21 games, the Cards went on to win anyway.

Of the 12 games in which a BS was recorded, and the Cards went on to lose, 5 of them were blown in the conventional save situation, with the pitcher entering in the 9th (or later)... Isringhausen twice, Franklin twice, and McClellan/Perez once each in the same game. The other 7 games were of the "blown hold" variety, with the lead lost in the 8th.

So having a closer with a completely perfect save record could have netted the Cards 5 additional wins.

Now George Sherrill has 6 blown saves, 5 of which have come in what I've defined as the conventional save situation -- 9th inning or later.

The O's have lost 3 of these, with one result still pending (suspended game vs. CHW).

So it would appear Sherrill has cost the O's almost as many wins (3, possibly 4) as the Cards' closers have cost them (5). Perhaps your notion that Sherrill is the critical differencemaker the Cards have to get is slightly overblown.

Isrighausen is 11-for-19 with a 1-5 record and unsightly 6.27 ERA. Basically he's been awful & Ryan Franklin has 14 out of 18 (and he is clearly missed in his other role while filling in for Jason)

So thats only 25 saves in 37 Chances! (67%)

Sherrill has 29 for 34 (85%)

So basically if Sherrill had been that closer at his same 85% rate they would currently be 5 games better than they are now. And likely another 2-4 games over the rest of the season. Thats not counting the impact of being able to return Franklin to his specialist role.

[beerisgood]

Best case scenerio, Torres and Gagne combine to blow a half dozen saves between now and the trade deadline. Then they might be desperate enough to deal another top prospect.

Pretty unlikely seeing as Gagne won't be in another save situation for the rest of the season. Do you really think Torres is that bad?

[FutureOwner]

Isrighausen is 11-for-19 with a 1-5 record and unsightly 6.27 ERA. Basically he's been awful & Ryan Franklin has 14 out of 18 (and he is clearly missed in his other role while filling in for Jason)

So thats only 25 saves in 37 Chances! (67%)

Sherrill has 29 for 34 (85%)

So basically if Sherrill had been that closer at his same 85% rate they would currently be 5 games better than they are now. And likely another 2-4 games over the rest of the season. Thats not counting the impact of being able to return Franklin to his specialist role.

Not only that, but the addition of a new closer would allow them to keep from using their current worst reliever, and use their current relievers in less important situations. It can have a direct effect on not only the 9th inning but the 6th-8th innings as well.

[LookinUp]

Not only that, but the addition of a new closer would allow them to keep from using their current worst reliever, and use their current relievers in less important situations. It can have a direct effect on not only the 9th inning but the 6th-8th innings as well.

Judging by what their current closers are doing, wouldn't that mean they just blow the game sooner? :rofl:

[FutureOwner]

Judging by what their current closers are doing, wouldn't that mean they just blow the game sooner? :rofl:

I guess we could send them Bradford too:laughlol:

[davearm]

Isrighausen is 11-for-19 with a 1-5 record and unsightly 6.27 ERA. Basically he's been awful & Ryan Franklin has 14 out of 18 (and he is clearly missed in his other role while filling in for Jason)

So thats only 25 saves in 37 Chances! (67%)

Sherrill has 29 for 34 (85%)

So basically if Sherrill had been that closer at his same 85% rate they would currently be 5 games better than they are now. And likely another 2-4 games over the rest of the season. Thats not counting the impact of being able to return Franklin to his specialist role.

Your yelling notwithstanding, you're wrong and here's why.

Over half of those "blown saves" you're harping on occurred prior to the 9th inning, when the pitcher involved wasn't even expected to finish the game. That's why they'd be better thought of as "blown holds".

If the Cards had Sherrill, he doesn't even get a chance to enter the game with a 9th inning lead in those situations.

As I outlined, the Cards have 5 legitimate, 9th inning (or later) blown saves, to go along with 28 successful saves. Sherrill has 5 9th-or-later blown saves, to go along with 29 successful saves.

28/33 vs. 29/34. BFD.

[Roll Tide]

I guess we could send them Bradford too:laughlol:

Bradford is definately available ... But I doubt we'd deal Bradford if they are going to deal Sherrill. The Bullpen would really be rough then. Sherrill is the most valuable player we will likely trade ...So indeed I would... But the return for Bradford would have to be insane (doubt wed trade him for a mid level prospect).

[FutureOwner]

Bradford is definately available ... But I doubt we'd deal Bradford if they are going to deal Sherrill. The Bullpen would really be rough then. Sherrill is the most valuable player we will likely trade ...So indeed I would... But the return for Bradford would have to be insane (doubt wed trade him for a mid level prospect).

If including Bradford gets us Rasmus he will be a Cardinal

[Fan4Life]

As I outlined, the Cards have 5 legitimate, 9th inning (or later) blown saves, to go along with 28 successful saves. Sherrill has 5 9th-or-later blown saves, to go along with 29 successful saves.

28/33 vs. 29/34. BFD.

It appears 4 blown saves(2 in the same game) of the 5 have come from their non regular closer. How many chances have they had?

[Roll Tide]

Your yelling notwithstanding, you're wrong and here's why.

Over half of those "blown saves" you're harping on occurred prior to the 9th inning, when the pitcher involved wasn't even expected to finish the game. That's why they'd be better thought of as "blown holds".

If the Cards had Sherrill, he doesn't even get a chance to enter the game with a 9th inning lead in those situations.

As I outlined, the Cards have 5 legitimate, 9th inning (or later) blown saves, to go along with 28 successful saves. Sherrill has 5 9th-or-later blown saves, to go along with 29 successful saves.

28/33 vs. 29/34. BFD.

Pardon me Dave

In computer etiquette 101 ... Caps are considered Yelling while Bold is considered highlighting. So Sorry to offend you! By the way there is no freaking way you can tell me the Cards aren't much better with Sherrill than Isringhausen. While you can argue 8th / 9th etc ... He would allow Franklin to return to the set up role & allow them to use Jason I either in mop up or clear him from the roster. Obtaing Sherrill would be a no brainer!

[davearm]

Pardon me Dave

In computer etiquette 101 ... Caps are considered Yelling while Bold is considered highlighting. So Sorry to offend you! By the way there is no freaking way you can tell me the Cards aren't much better with Sherrill than Isringhausen. While you can argue 8th / 9th etc ... He would allow Franklin to return to the set up role & allow them to use Jason I either in mop up or clear him from the roster. Obtaing Sherrill would be a no brainer!

The Cards need a reliever. Sherrill is just one of many that could help them, and I could name several guys that have similar or better numbers.

If the media whispers are to be believed (Rosenthal, Olney, etc), Sherrill is about the most expensive one to obtain, though.

So not only are you overstating the Cards' need for bullpen help in general with your misused save percentage stats, you're also badly mischaracterizing Sherrill as the Cards' best option. Factoring in price, he's probably amongst the poorer options, actually.

By the same logic, Durham was a much better option for the Brewers than Roberts, and the Crew was wise to go that direction, IMO.

And FYI, bolding an entire post doesn't highlight anything.

[Migrant Redbird]

By the way there is no freaking way you can tell me the Cards aren't much better with Sherrill than Isringhausen. While you can argue 8th / 9th etc ... He would allow Franklin to return to the set up role & allow them to use Jason I either in mop up or clear him from the roster. Obtaing Sherrill would be a no brainer!

Basically what Dave said.

Having a manager who would stop running Isringhausen out there over and over would probably net us more wins than acquiring Sherrill. I'm not convinced that Sherrill is all that superior to Franklin, Springer, Perez, Worrell, or McClellan would be in the closer role.

Another option the Cards might consider would be using Carpenter or Wainwright as the closer when they come off the DL instead of putting them back into the rotation. Carpenter pitched out of the bullpen during his rehab in 2003; Wainwright took over for Isringhausen as closer the last third of 2006 and was one of the stars in the World Series.

Those two games on Monday and Tuesday were devastating because they were the only two of the four game series that the Cards were favored to win, but they're still only two losses in a season that probably has at least another 20 to 30 losses to go. It's not the end of the world, frustrating as it may, and the Cards ownership and GM are unlikely to be stampeded into grossly overpaying for Sherrill to apply a band aid on our bullpen.