Can Means become the Orioles’ version of Kuechel?

[SteveA]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’ll go to my grave wondering what happened to Matusz.    

As to Means, we deserve a pleasant surprise.    

[Can_of_corn]

Doesn't seem to bother Price.

[Hallas]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm dying on the TTTP hill.

They fiddled with his delivery, he got hurt and was never the same.

One thing that baffles me about the TTTP stuff is that, for lefties, there are a lot of alternative ways you can keep runners honest without having to cut your TTTP to sub-1.3.  You can develop a kick pickoff a la Andy Pettite and it doesn't really matter what your TTTP is because the runner can't reliably go until your leg is at its peak.  Yet they forced it down all pitchers' throats like it was gospel.

[Hallas]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Per BrooksBaseball, he topped out at 95.2 in one appearance, but the rest have been under 95 (including one 94.9 and one 94.7, the rest in the 93.6-94.3 range for the top).    Last year’s OH scouting report said he sits 90-92, can touch 93-94 on occasion.   For me, the development of his change-up is the big difference this year, more than any velocity increase.  Not that I’m complaining about getting a velocity bump.

94.9 and 94.7 round up to 95, so I'll call those 95.  I was under the impression that he hung out around 90ish and could bump it up to 92-93, as opposed to averaging 92-93 and touching 95.  Might all be semantics.  But assuming the velocity jump is real, when your fastball goes up 2 mph, your changeup gets better by default.  It looks like he's actually improved his changeup, but it's hard to know how much of that is his fastball velocity and how much of that is his improved changeup.

[LA2]

8 hours ago, Frobby said:

Could be.    The irony is, the best Matusz ever pitched was in the stretch after Buck arrived in August/September 2010.    He had a 5.46 ERA when Buck arrived, then 2.11 in 11 starts under Buck.    You’d have thought they would have left him alone after that.    

That whole rotation worsened under the new pitching coach Buck brought in the following season.

[Il BuonO]

3 hours ago, LA2 said:

That whole rotation worsened under the new pitching coach Buck brought in the following season.

Rick Adair, ugh. And he’s worked so much since leaving the Orioles.

[DrungoHazewood]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm dying on the TTTP hill.

From 2011-2018 the Orioles allowed 74 steals per season, and 36 caught, for a 68% SB percentage.  Over that same time the average MLB team allowed 95 steals and 37 caught, for a 72% rate.

So a laser-focus on TTP meant the O's slashed 21 steals a year from the opposition, while catching them just as often as average.  That's roughly four runs a year.  That's something.  That's the number of runs Brian Matusz allowed in 1.1 innings on June 12, 2011.

[Redskins Rick]

14 hours ago, bobmc said:

Thanks!  I was joking a bit but had not dug into his stats.  I now remember that Brady was gonna fix him but that was after the decline.  I stand corrected but the Brady name on his glove was interesting to say the least.    I wish, like others, that it had worked out.  He was going to be the next Cole Hamels and Hamels is still around right?

Just another Orioles prospect, high on hype, and didnt amount to as much as they felt he could have.

I dont blame Brady, there are others dicking around with their delivery. Brady was just a trainer trying to get their body into physical shape to play the game.

But, as evident from pitchers that left the Oriole System to pitch elsewhere with better success, doesn't surprise me.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Rick Adair, ugh. And he’s worked so much since leaving the Orioles.

Actually it was Mark Connor who immediately succeeded Kranitz.   Adair was bullpen coach and succeeded Connor when he quit in mid-June. 

[Redskins Rick]

16 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

It’s ok, @Can_of_corn has been picking on me & after my wife left me for my sister, I thought I had hit rock bottom, but then I saw you stealing my posts & I began to wonder if there was anything sacred in this world anymore. It’s been a rough day. 

That Paddack change is a unique looking pitch, that’s as good a change as I’ve seen that finishes within the zone, filthy. Before games began yesterday I decided to watch his start v Seattle & I had to load up on Paddy in dfs; unfortunately, I did not make as prudent a move in fading Cy Means. 

Jamie Moyer was a classic pitcher that didnt have the hard heater, but had a great change, and good amount of MPH difference between the two, had pretty good success.

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Actually it was Mark Connor who immediately succeeded Kranitz.   Adair was bullpen coach and succeeded Connor when he quit in mid-June. 

Been a bunch of pitching coaches here and yet quality pitchers have struggled to develop here.

[Il BuonO]

22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Actually it was Mark Connor who immediately succeeded Kranitz.   Adair was bullpen coach and succeeded Connor when he quit in mid-June. 

Pretty sure the poster I quoted wasn’t talking about Connor. He wasn’t with the team long enough to screw up the rotation.

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Pretty sure the poster I quoted wasn’t talking about Connor. He wasn’t with the team long enough to screw up the rotation.

It’s interesting how things get forgotten/misremembered over time.   I was pretty sure the O’s were terrible under Connor, and that he had a key role in screwing up Matusz.    But when I looked, I found the following:

1.   The staff had a 4.22 ERA under Connor, 5.33 under Adair the remainder of the year.

2.    The rotation had a 4.16 ERA under Connor, 6.23 under Adair the rest of the year.

3.   The bullpen had a 4.33 ERA while Adair was bullpen coach, 3.96 after he left to become pitching coach.

4.   Matusz didn’t even start a game until June 1, less than two weeks before Connor left.   He missed the start of the year with an oblique injury.

5.   Zach Britton started that year in the rotation and had a 3.18 ERA under Connor, 6.22 under Adair.    That’s interesting because I remember that Britton was very critical of Adair during the Wallace/Chiti regime, though never mentioning Adair by name.

 

 

[LA2]

Guthrie, Millwood, Matusz, Arrieta, Bergesen. Actually had a semblance of a rotation then. Not much of a record, but except for the future CY Award winner, they made their starts and averaged close to or over 6 innings.

[Il BuonO]

52 minutes ago, Frobby said:

5.   Zach Britton started that year in the rotation and had a 3.18 ERA under Connor, 6.22 under Adair.    That’s interesting because I remember that Britton was very critical of Adair during the Wallace/Chiti regime, though never mentioning Adair by name.

I know I’ve posted it a while back when it happened, but I had the chance to meet Buck (2012) and asked him about Tillman.

The story had been that Peterson simplified his delivery and that was the reason for his success. Buck was having none of it, and attributed the success to Adair, his pitching coach. Even though, prior to being called up Adair had not worked much with Tillman.

It seems to me, the TTTP talk was handed down from Buck so I’m not sure it would have mattered who was PC. Then, forcing guys into a one-size-fits-all delivery the organization pushed, which Britton mentioned in regards to Arrieta (don’t remember if he used his name, but pretty clear who it was) and Buck’s fierce loyalty to staff and vets didn’t help.

I also wondered about the conditions under which Connor left.