Montanez on the bench...again

[Roll Tide]

Was totally for Guthrie, still am. We had no one better and Guthrie succeeded. But I'm not naive enough to think that he is an "ace" on another team with better pitchers.

The point is this, People keep saying Jay isn't the future, well Luis isn't really the future either. fourth outfielders are a dime a dozen and that is all he will ever be on this team. With Nick, Adam and Luke/ Nolan being the starters (or projected starters) over the next five+ years.

He is a fourth outfielder, play him like one.

I never said anywhere that he is a #1. With that said he has done a very nice job filling that role in a pinch.

Montanez is still young & still has a future.... Payton has no future & wont be here next season. I'm not convinced that Montanez is only a 4th OF. I'm not convinced he is better than that either. All I'm saying is we have the time & the last place team to take a look at a 26 year old kid that was the 3rd pick in Baseball.

With Scott hurting & Jones on the DL we certainly should be able to give him regular playing time.

[SilentJames]

I never said anywhere that he is a #1. With that said he has done a very nice job filling that role in a pinch.

Montanez is still young & still has a future.... Payton has no future & wont be here next season. I'm not convinced that Montanez is only a 4th OF. I'm not convinced he is either. All I'm saying is we have the time & the last place team to take a look at a 26 year old kid that was the 3rd pick in Baseball.

With Scott hurting & Jones on the DL we certainly should be able to give him regular playing time.

He IS getting regular playing time. He has gotten in every game since he came up! He is doing what he would be doing next year, he is a bench guy who is a decent LF sub.

He is getting his look, he is getting his chance.

[Eight]

I'm not sure the "fourth outfielder" argument holds water here. Jay Payton isn't even a fourth outfielder on a team that constructs its roster well.

[getxstoked]

To the people whining about Cintron at SS, check this...

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2008/08/tonights_os_lineup.html

Lineup highlight: Juan Castro was in the original lineup, but was scratched a couple of hours before gametime, presumably because of the groin strain that forced him out of action on Saturday night..

Cintron had an awful game yesterday, but his track record shows he's much, much better than that.

[Boy Howdy]

Everyone can prepare their "small sample size" rebuttals, but Jay Payton is a .444 (4-9) career hitter vs. the tough righty named Fausto Carmona. Of course, the point's already been made that Payton's playing because he's the best defensive option in CF.

Wanna sit Luke Scott? One of the team's most dangerous sticks against a righty.

Wanna sit Huff? A top hitter with a .714 career slugger vs Carmona.

Mora has a 1.101 career OPS vs. Fausto.

Even Millar, who's never had a hit off Fausto, does has three walks and a HBP for a nifty .571 on-base percentage.

[sbauer]

I get what everyone is saying. Here's where I stand.

1) I'm completely against playing him in center field...ever.

2) I am OK with him getting more starts in left. With Scott's injuries, he should be DH'ing a bit more anyway.

I don't care what his role is supposed to be. He needs to given more of a look. Guthrie was not supposed to be a starter on our team. His MLB numbers weren't very attractive. His numbers in the minors prior to 2006 weren't that impressive either.

While people complain about Mora a lot, he was a utility player and turned into a every day third basemen that had several solid years.

Obviously, much of this was caused by our lack of depth, but all a player needs is a chance. If he put up those numbers in the minors this year, he deserves more playing time. I'm not talking about playing defense for an inning or two at the end of a game, or some pitching hitting role. I want to see what he can do for a whole game, two games in a row. If that means taking away at bats from Millar, then I'm OK with it. I know he's playing for a job next year, but we need to see what we have.

He's still young. We brought him up. Lets take a look. If it doesn't work out, fine. I'm not for starting him every day, but he should be starting more than he has.

[sbauer]

I'm not sure the "fourth outfielder" argument holds water here. Jay Payton isn't even a fourth outfielder on a team that constructs its roster well.

Exactly. Jay Payton is the definition of a forth outfielder. He complains about not starting, but he knows we wouldn't be starting for many other teams.

[ledzepp8]

I seem to remember the majority of OH people also wanted Guthrie to stay in the pen last year... Believed that was his role even.

If Montanez plays like he was in AA, or plays like someone deserving off the 3rd overall draft pick, it gives the team a multitude of options this offseason to accelerate the rebuilding process. They can even use other pieces than the usual suspects.

Having said that, I believe playing him CF would be a horrible horrible idea.

Oh I definitely agree...I hope he exceeds all expectations. I don't have an opinion on him either way. Just pointing out how it's kind of hypocritical to label him nothing more than a 4th OF at best and then criticize Trembley for playing him like one.

[SilentJames]

I'm not sure the "fourth outfielder" argument holds water here. Jay Payton isn't even a fourth outfielder on a team that constructs its roster well.

He is a better option right now because he can play all OF positions, something you want in a fourth OF'er.

Luis' batting potential is higher sure, and he is younger. But he can only play RF and LF, all indications are that he lacks the range to consistently play CF.

I really don;t get why this is so hard for people to get.

Jay Payton's role on this team has been defensive sub and fourth OFer - he has done a decent enough job this season.

[Roll Tide]

Yeah, all those years in the minor league system dealing with young players and bringing them up. Yeah the fact that most of these players would take a bullett for him. yeah the fact that reports from our people inside the clubhouse saying Trembley has the team wrapped around his finger. Yeah the fact the team is playing better than it has in years.

Yeah, all of that means nothing.

DT has got to go.

Trembley had 21 years in the minors & never got a call to manage in the bigs. The only reason he is here this year is that AM couldn't persuade his pick to take the job.

[SilentJames]

Trembley had 21 years in the minors & never got a call to manage in the bigs. The only reason he is here this year is that AM couldn't persuade his pick to take the job.

Yeah, and we are better off for it.

[coe76]

I agree that Payton is not blocking Lou at this point. Right now we really do not have a CF so Payton plays. Scott, Millar, etc could rotate into a defensive position or DH so Lou gets more time. My main disagreement is the posters who already are saying Lou is only a 4th OF at best. I understand their reasoning as this is the first year Lou has shown the results of such a high pick. Before he played like a AAAA guy at best. I am willing to be patient though to see if maybe he finally "got it" this year and can play up to his draft position. We probably won't see that this year. Next year in spring training Lou hopefully gets a closer look out there. I would like him to get more ABs somehow but DT favors vets and so we have to be patient. Lou needs to produce during the opportunities he gets. I am going to wait for now to see if Lou can prove he is more than a "4th OF at best" I think he can. Time will tell

[Sports Guy]

What I find hysterical is that DT has said he will get a good look at Lou in the OF and that he will play more.

And when this happens, all the people screaming about team chemistry blah blah will all of a sudden be saying...see, DT is playing him..You are getting what you want.

Again, whatever the Orioles do is enough for most of this board and if anyone goes against it, its like we are going against god or something.

It has been this way for 7 years or so that I have been posting on here and there is no end in sight, that's for sure.

[Roll Tide]

He IS getting regular playing time. He has gotten in every game since he came up! He is doing what he would be doing next year, he is a bench guy who is a decent LF sub.

He is getting his look, he is getting his chance.

James is this your opinion??? You sound like your in Trembley & Mcphail's pocket & they've already made the decision. I'd honestly like your source if you have one.

I've said I dont know if he will be better than a #4 of. IMO he should be allowed to play everday for a last place team. You might be right on how you feel about him ... But you might be wrong!

[utvolzac]

I said this yesterday but it bares repeating: Montanez has been up since August 5th and in that span of time, Trembley has found a way to play him in ever single game. The outrage over Trembley playing a guy like a 4th outfielder, when the majority on here believe that will be his role, is ridiculous.

August 5: Brought in as a replacement for Scott. 0 at bats.

August 6: Starts in LF. 4 at bats. 2 hits.

August 8: Pinch hit for Scott. 1 at bat.

August 9: Pinch runner for Scott. 1 at bat.

August 10: Started in LF. 4 at bats. 3 hits.

Let's not pretend that Tremblay is maximizing his value. He has 10 at bats in 5 games. If he was starting between LF/DH everyday, he'd have twice that. The idea is to get a fair assessment, which means you need more than just some random sample sizes inflated and deflated by games where he's getting 1 at bat as a pinch hitter.

We have 45 games left. In that time Montanez could get roughly 180-200 at bats, give or take. Not ideal, but at least it's something solid to build an evaluation on. And that is without doing anything crazy like playing him in CF or SS.

Does anyone care if Millar or Mora lose 80-100 at bats? Anyone?