Mount Sportsmore

[rolliefingers]

Clearly, there are people posting in this thread who have ABSOLUTELY no sense of history. None.

Clearly, there is a person posting in this thread who is holding a personal grudge against Ray Lewis for something he did seven years ago.

[Chollie Eckman]

To compare Ray Lewis to Pacman is borderline absurd. Ray was in the "wrong place at the wrong time" ONE TIME. Pacman finds himself in those situations seemingly on a nightly basis. Ray has completely cleaned up his image, whether you believe he's a saint or not. He admitted to running with the wrong crowd, and he has said that he totally changed who he hangs out with. He absolutely messed up. And, the "large" settlement isn't so large to him. I'm sure he would gladly give that money to make the trial go away. If anything, Ray Lewis is the "anti-Pacman". He made a mistake, learned from it, is outspoken about his life changes, and he's a (seemingly) better person now. Pacman is a bum.

(All of that Ray Lewis love came from a Redskin fan too...)

Ray turned on his peeps. Are you so sure there was ONLY one incident involving Ray?

No Tony Dungy is the anti-Pacman. Ray is Pacman lite.

[Dr. FLK]

Since I wasn't alive yet, I wont' claim to know the answer to this. But, were any of the Baltimore Bullets beloved in Charm City?

[NJOriolesFan]

To compare Ray Lewis to Pacman is borderline absurd. Ray was in the "wrong place at the wrong time" ONE TIME. Pacman finds himself in those situations seemingly on a nightly basis. Ray has completely cleaned up his image, whether you believe he's a saint or not. He admitted to running with the wrong crowd, and he has said that he totally changed who he hangs out with. He absolutely messed up. And, the "large" settlement isn't so large to him. I'm sure he would gladly give that money to make the trial go away. If anything, Ray Lewis is the "anti-Pacman". He made a mistake, learned from it, is outspoken about his life changes, and he's a (seemingly) better person now. Pacman is a bum.

(All of that Ray Lewis love came from a Redskin fan too...)

I agree that he did a great job of cleaning up his act and although he has whined about his contract way too often, he has been a good leader and a damned good football player. When you look him up on Wikipedia, the information about the trial and murder is there under Ray Leis' biography. It will never be erased. He learned from his mistakes and moved on. Some of us NEVER have made that "mistake". Why is it that someone who doesn't make the "mistake" often gets less credit than the one who did make a mistake and makes himself good. In my book, the guy who never did anything wrong has a step up on the guy who did.

And I agree Pacman is trash. I just thought "wrong place, wrong time" was insensitive to the families that lost someone. He was involved and to what extent we will never know.

[Dr. FLK]

Ray turned on his peeps. Are you so sure there was ONLY one incident involving Ray?

No Tony Dungy is the anti-Pacman. Ray is Pacman lite.

No, I'm not positive. But, I am POSITIVE that there is more than 1 involving Pacman. And, I'm sure that he seems to have no intention on becoming a deserving member of society. Ray has turned things around. He didn't "turn on his peeps", he eventually cooperated with the Cops. "Turning on your peeps" isn't such a bad thing when your "peeps" are murderers. And, he didn't turn on his peeps initially, which is what got him into trouble, is it not?

[Chollie Eckman]

Clearly, there is a person posting in this thread who is holding a personal grudge against Ray Lewis for something he did seven years ago.

Not necessarily, I'm just saying that if you're gonna etch it in stone who the profound sports figures are in Baltimore history let's consider ALL the parameters.

[rolliefingers]

Ray turned on his peeps. Are you so sure there was ONLY one incident involving Ray?

No Tony Dungy is the anti-Pacman. Ray is Pacman lite.

Are YOU so sure that Tony Dungy never murdered anyone?

Well, unless charges are brought, that's as within the realm of possibility as what you mentioned. This is absurd.

[isestrex]

I'll throw my hat in the pool of people arguing that Kirby belongs on the Minn one.

Anyway Baltimore:

Let's wait until we see the rest of Ray's career before we esteem him eternal glory. Let's see how long he plays, how he exits and what he's like as a person without football.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ray Lewis, but am I the only one a little afraid he's going to do something stupid and get arrested again? This guy might have an ending a la Palmeiro...

Washington:

I doubt many DCers even know that the great Walter Johnson played in this city all those years ago. Let's just say since baseball hasn't been a fixture here for decades, most people have no history with baseball at all. DC is a football town... a Redskin town... and the wall should reflect that. If this were put up to some sort of giant vote, the winners would probably be:

John Riggins, Darrell Green, Joe Gibbs, John Thompson.

Wes Unsled probably deserves consideration, as does the Big Train himself, but these two wouldn't even come close in a poll of Washingtonians.

[Dr. FLK]

Not necessarily, I'm just saying that if you're gonna etch it in stone who the profound sports figures are in Baltimore history let's consider ALL the parameters.

Then I bet you'd have to remove a lot of names from a lot of lists at the start of this thread.

[Why Not?]

But what will people be saying when Ray Lewis is retired for 10 years? To have relevence years after you stop playing is what really makes somebody's career remarkable. Lewis will have his place in history and in Baltimore lore but it is hard to compare the love you have for somebody who is current to someone many have never seen play.

After 10 years, people will be comparing the top current linebackers in the NFL to Ray Lewis...probably for longer than that. The guy is unquestionably one of the top three players at the position EVER. Assuming he finishes his career here, he will have been the face of Baltimore football for 15 years. He is among the final four.

Ray-Ray, Cal, Brooks and Stan Stamenkovic.

[Chollie Eckman]

No, I'm not positive. But, I am POSITIVE that there is more than 1 involving Pacman. And, I'm sure that he seems to have no intention on becoming a deserving member of society. Ray has turned things around. He didn't "turn on his peeps", he eventually cooperated with the Cops. "Turning on your peeps" isn't such a bad thing when your "peeps" are murderers. And, he didn't turn on his peeps initially, which is what got him into trouble, is it not?

Let's all remember - Ray Lewis was a witness to a multiple homcide and he denied involvement(lied about it) for how long? Ray was facing jail time. Ray copped a plea.

[rolliefingers]

No, I'm not positive. But, I am POSITIVE that there is more than 1 involving Pacman. And, I'm sure that he seems to have no intention on becoming a deserving member of society. Ray has turned things around. He didn't "turn on his peeps", he eventually cooperated with the Cops. "Turning on your peeps" isn't such a bad thing when your "peeps" are murderers. And, he didn't turn on his peeps initially, which is what got him into trouble, is it not?

Well-stated. Yet, our law-and-order buddy Chollie seems to be evoking the same "stop snitching" ethos found in the very criminals he seems to loathe so much. Talking to police = "turning on your peeps"? As FLK stated so well, when your "peeps" are murderers, it's probably time to cut your losses...

[NJOriolesFan]

That's true, but Baltimore is different. Ray and Palmer are very close, IMO. Palmer did more individually and collectively, but the question isn't necessarily "best", but rather "most beloved". Ray is by far more beloved than Palmer.

It isn't necessarily beloved as much as it is greatness. Consider the actual Mount Rushmore. It isn't necessarily because of the fondness we had for these four over any other presidents. They were chosen because of their role in "preserving the Republic and expanding the territory". President Coolidge insisted that along with George Washington, two republicans and one Democrat be portrayed. Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt may not represent our most beloved presidents of the first 150 years of our country but they fit the criteria that they were given. In 1937, a bill was brought to Congress to add Susan B. Anthony's head but no more funding would be provided other than to complete the faces that were already decided upon.

[Witchy_Chick]

Then I bet you'd have to remove a lot of names from a lot of lists at the start of this thread.

Including the "beloved" Kirby Puckett.

Witchy

[Chollie Eckman]

Well-stated. Yet, our law-and-order buddy Chollie seems to be evoking the same "stop snitching" ethos found in the very criminals he seems to loathe so much. Talking to police = "turning on your peeps"? As FLK stated so well, when your "peeps" are murderers, it's probably time to cut your losses...

He was facing accessory to murder charges and he got immunity. Remember?

Either you don't remember and needed a refresher or you never knew and got an education today.