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Yossarian

By Yossarian
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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Just now, Philip said:

We are picking number two this summer, and we can’t change that, but I would be extremely disappointed if we have a top five pick next summer

You’ve said that before.    Prepare to be very disappointed.   The fifth-worst team in baseball won 67 games last year.    What have we done this winter that makes you think we’ll improve by 13+ games?   

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Frobby
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Yossarian
Yossarian

According to MLB.com, Baltimore has the #10 rated RHP and #10 rated LHP prospects for 2020.  That's not a bad way to begin the re-build.

Ripken
Ripken

Both are legit.  Pray for good things to continue.

7Mo Major Leaguer

7Mo

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Philip said:

Maybe, but a guy can hope.

Not sure how you look at it but I can see a scenario where we have a top 5 pick in 2021 (even top 3) and I could still feel really good about  progress and where the organization is going.

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Philip Hangout Grand Counsel

Philip

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2 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Not sure how you look at it but I can see a scenario where we have a top 5 pick in 2021 (even top 3) and I could still feel really good about  progress and where the organization is going.

I want to win. I don’t want to sacrifice the future for the sake of the present, but I also don’t want to sabotage the Present for the sake of the future.

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7Mo Major Leaguer

7Mo

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1 minute ago, Philip said:

I want to win. I don’t want to sacrifice the future for the sake of the present, but I also don’t want to sabotage the Present for the sake of the future.

I understand. But I could feel really good about a Givens and Mancini trade (and maybe 1-2 more) if the return looks good and if prospects are developing well. 

That could make for a pretty bad 2020 season but would give me even more hope going forward.

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Philip Hangout Grand Counsel

Philip

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1 hour ago, 7Mo said:

I understand. But I could feel really good about a Givens and Mancini trade (and maybe 1-2 more) if the return looks good and if prospects are developing well. 

That could make for a pretty bad 2020 season but would give me even more hope going forward.

Yes, I don’t have any problem with what you’ve just described, that’s not “sabotaging the present” I’m talking about deliberately holding back prospects because they might make the difference between the fourth or the sixth pick. Do not want Mike to deliberately make the team worse. If he wants to trade a guy for future prospects, that’s great, and I applaud it, but I don’t want him to hold the guys on the farm when they are ready to come up.

If Mountcastle is ready, and he passes his service time date( whatever that date is), he should come up, even if it means that the team will be better because of his presence. 

I don’t want David Hess to start A single game unless he’s one of our five best guys....And he’s not. He’s probably not even one of our 10 best guys. So that’s what I mean.

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes, I don’t have any problem with what you’ve just described, that’s not “sabotaging the present” I’m talking about deliberately holding back prospects because they might make the difference between the fourth or the sixth pick. Do not want Mike to deliberately make the team worse. If he wants to trade a guy for future prospects, that’s great, and I applaud it, but I don’t want him to hold the guys on the farm when they are ready to come up.

If Mountcastle is ready, and he passes his service time date( whatever that date is), he should come up, even if it means that the team will be better because of his presence. 

I don’t want David Hess to start A single game unless he’s one of our five best guys....And he’s not. He’s probably not even one of our 10 best guys. So that’s what I mean.

 

I don’t disagree here, and I don’t think Elias will hold guys back for the purpose of making the team worse.    But he might hold back guys who would make the team better (1) for service time reasons, or (2) because he thinks it’s best to keep them in the minors for their development, even though they’re already better than players on the big league roster.    

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Philip Hangout Grand Counsel

Philip

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16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t disagree here, and I don’t think Elias will hold guys back for the purpose of making the team worse.    But he might hold back guys who would make the team better (1) for service time reasons, or (2) because he thinks it’s best to keep them in the minors for their development, even though they’re already better than players on the big league roster.    

Well the current example is Mountcastle. Even though he’s ready now, and his service time day is in April/May, there’s talk that he may be kept down “for his development” which would/will really fry me. And I’m sure he’s not the only guy who might be kept down “for his development” despite clearly At least ready for an opportunity at the MLB level.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, Philip said:

Well the current example is Mountcastle. Even though he’s ready now, and his service time day is in April/May, there’s talk that he may be kept down “for his development” which would/will really fry me. And I’m sure he’s not the only guy who might be kept down “for his development” despite clearly At least ready for an opportunity at the MLB level.

My point is, Elias will either delay his arrival for service time reasons, or because he believes Mountcastle needs to keep working on his defense and plate discipline to have a successful transition to the majors.    I don’t believe he has any intention to hold Mountcastle back for the purpose of making the team worse.   

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billw76 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

billw76

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4 hours ago, 7Mo said:

Not sure how you look at it but I can see a scenario where we have a top 5 pick in 2021 (even top 3) and I could still feel really good about  progress and where the organization is going.

I honestly don't see any way we pick outside the top 5. I guess it's possible but I just can't see this team improving 10-15 games to move out of the top 5.

I just want to see progression this year from Means, Hays etc on the ML roster, and more importantly from the farm system and in the international market. 

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Philip Hangout Grand Counsel

Philip

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 I don’t believe he has any intention to hold Mountcastle back for the purpose of making the team worse.

That is what would make me mad. I hope you are correct, but that is what I worry about, that the desire for a higher draft pick would lead to exactly that kind of sabotage. And we won’t know that it’s happening until it happens. At the moment we can only speculate.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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6 hours ago, Philip said:

That is what would make me mad. I hope you are correct, but that is what I worry about, that the desire for a higher draft pick would lead to exactly that kind of sabotage. And we won’t know that it’s happening until it happens. At the moment we can only speculate.

We wouldn’t know it was happening if it was happening.   How will we know Mountcastle is being held back for non-developmental reasons?    I guess if we get reports that he looks like Alex Gordon in LF, and is walking as often as David Ortiz, but is still being held back, then we’ll know.    Otherwise, we won’t.   We can’t read Elias’ mind.     

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