Ok, this is completely unreliable so don't trust it...but a couple rumors

[geschinger]

And who plays first base for us in 2009 and beyond if Tex signs elsewhere?

Delgado? Giambi?

If we are putting all our eggs in the Tex basket, we are going to get burned. The only way to do that and ensure you don't is to trade for him and have him sign an extension. We don't have to have Tex, but this team is counting on him to be an Oriole in 2009 as a FA as part of its plan and that's far from a lock.

It is far from a lock if we trade for him as well. He isn't signing an extension - he will be a free agent. Whether we trade for him now or try to sign him when he is a FA the result is the same - the O's will have to make themselves the most attractive destination for Boras and Tex during the 2008/09 offseason.

[YardBirds13]

And who plays first base for us in 2009 and beyond if Tex signs elsewhere?

Delgado? Giambi?

If we are putting all our eggs in the Tex basket, we are going to get burned. The only way to do that and ensure you don't is to trade for him and have him sign an extension. We don't have to have Tex, but this team is counting on him to be an Oriole in 2009 as a FA as part of its plan and that's far from a lock.

No, the way we get REALLY burned is if we trade pitching for him, and then he doesn't sign an extension. YOU are putting all of YOUR eggs in the Tex basket, not the other way around.

Seriously, you're getting a little ridiculous. There are other people to play first in this league. I understand we haven't had a good one for a while, but you are hurting the team with your Tex obsession. You trade some young pitching for other good young positional talent, then after next year, Tex is the number one goal to sign. That should be the plan.

[RVAbird]

No, the way we get REALLY burned is if we trade pitching for him, and then he doesn't sign an extension. YOU are putting all of YOUR eggs in the Tex basket, not the other way around.

Seriously, you're getting a little ridiculous. There are other people to play first in this league. I understand we haven't had a good one for a while, but you are hurting the team with your Tex obsession. You trade some young pitching for other good young positional talent, then after next year, Tex is the number one goal to sign. That should be the plan.

Thank you! I don't understand why some people don't understand that. Tex will NOT sign an extension, so we are essentially giving up DCab and Ray for nothing. That is a terrible idea when those two could net us a good outfield prospect and maybe one more lower prospect. Either way we are going to have to splurge to sign Tex after 08. Trading for him does not make us a better team.

[Eight]

BTW...If you look at WARP3, Ray and DCab have been worth almost 2 wins more than Tex has.

Now, part of that is because Tex has been hurt...He probably would be better..However, Ray also struggled in June to bring that number down i am sure and DCab has struggled the last 6 weeks, so it kind of evens out.

I have more than a little trouble buying their assessment that Chris Ray's 40 innings of sub league-average relief work is only worth about 0.2 wins less than Teixeira's 60 games of .950+ even adjusting for home park and position.

[Sports Guy]

I have more than a little trouble buying their assessment that Chris Ray's 40 innings of sub league-average relief work is only worth about 0.2 wins less than Teixeira's 60 games of .950+ even adjusting for home park and position.

First of all, its not my assessment...It is based on WARP3.

Secondly, i never said what you are claiming.

[RVAbird]

BTW...If you look at WARP3, Ray and DCab have been worth almost 2 wins more than Tex has.

Now, part of that is because Tex has been hurt...He probably would be better..However, Ray also struggled in June to bring that number down i am sure and DCab has struggled the last 6 weeks, so it kind of evens out.

Since WARP3 is a counting stat, it's a little misleading to compare the value of two players to that of one, since the roles of Cabrera and Ray would be replaced anyway. But other than that, I agree with your points that trading DCab and Ray for Tex would be a terrible move.

[YardBirds13]

I have more than a little trouble buying their assessment that Chris Ray's 40 innings of sub league-average relief work is only worth about 0.2 wins less than Teixeira's 60 games of .950+ even adjusting for home park and position.

Well, Ray hasn't been sub-leaugue average first of all. He actually hasn't been that bad.

But, as a general premise I agree with you, I like to look at WARP3, but only as one in a number of things. I think it'd be silly to think Ray and Tex are worth the same thing. I think trading for Tex is a mistake, unless you can make Ray the centerpiece. I'm not giving up our young starters for a guy you might only have for one season. If you're getting rid of Cabrera/Penn/Olson etc., go after a young outfielder like Rios, Crawford someone that we will have for a while.

[Sports Guy]

Since WARP3 is a counting stat, it's a little misleading to compare the value of two players to that of one, since the roles of Cabrera and Ray would be replaced anyway. .

Yea, this is true.

However, JTrea asked for it, so i told him.

I still don't think it really makes us a better team though.

[RVAbird]

Yea, this is true.

However, JTrea asked for it, so i told him.

I still don't think it really makes us a better team though.

It doesn't. Acquiring Tex this year could perhaps give us 2-3 more wins this season. It may allow us like 6 more wins next year (assuming that Cabrera would continue to pitch this miserably next year, which I wouldn't assume).

So big deal, we finish 6 games under .500 instead of 12, and then still have to break the bank to resign Tex. We've lost two of our best trading chips for essentially nothing. This is just not a good move no matter how you look at it.

[YardBirds13]

It doesn't. Acquiring Tex this year could perhaps give us 2-3 more wins this season. It may allow us like 6 more wins next year (assuming that Cabrera would continue to pitch this miserably next year, which I wouldn't assume).

So big deal, we finish 6 games under .500 instead of 12, and then still have to break the bank to resign Tex. We've lost two of our best trading chips for essentially nothing. This is just not a good move no matter how you look at it.

Summed it up perfectly. Nicely done.

[Leitch]

I have more than a little trouble buying their assessment that Chris Ray's 40 innings of sub league-average relief work is only worth about 0.2 wins less than Teixeira's 60 games of .950+ even adjusting for home park and position.

Ray WARP3: 3.8

Teixiera WARP3: 5.2

That's almost two wins.

[PoorMike]

Anyone in Peter's position will always have the ability to step in when he feels it's necessary. You would...I would...anyone would.

Then what is McPhails job? If he's asking MacPhail to run the club then let him run it. Unless its an issue of needing more payroll, the personel issues should be transparent to Angelos, IF AM is REALLY running the club.

I'm not advocating trading Roberts at all ...I'm just saying that if AM wants to trade Roberts, Angelos should not stop him...because he's supposedly told AM that it's MacPhail's job to determine the directon of them team. If trading BR is part of that plan, so be it.

[Mad Mark]

It doesn't. Acquiring Tex this year could perhaps give us 2-3 more wins this season. It may allow us like 6 more wins next year (assuming that Cabrera would continue to pitch this miserably next year, which I wouldn't assume).

So big deal, we finish 6 games under .500 instead of 12, and then still have to break the bank to resign Tex. We've lost two of our best trading chips for essentially nothing. This is just not a good move no matter how you look at it.

Change Tex' name to Joe Ray Thornton, and his birthplace to Midland, TX. All stats are the same. As an Orioles fan, would those of you who advocate trading for Tex still want to trade for him, knowing that you will have to line up with the other 29 clubs to compete for his services after the 2008 season? If so, why?

RVAbird and the others who advocate waiting for Tex to hit the FA market are correct. Trading for him would only cost us precious bargaining chips, and bring little or nothing of lasting value.

[El Gordo]

Then what is McPhails job? If he's asking MacPhail to run the club then let him run it. Unless its an issue of needing more payroll, the personel issues should be transparent to Angelos, IF AM is REALLY running the club.

I'm not advocating trading Roberts at all ...I'm just saying that if AM wants to trade Roberts, Angelos should not stop him...because he's supposedly told AM that it's MacPhail's job to determine the directon of them team. If trading BR is part of that plan, so be it.

If he wants to trade BRob maybe not, but what if Mcphail wants to sign ARod to a 8/240M contract? Don't you think PA should be consulted?

[PoorMike]

If he wants to trade BRob maybe not, but what if Mcphail wants to sign ARod to a 8/240M contract? Don't you think PA should be consulted?

I do. Which is exactly why I said, "Unless its an issue of needing more payroll."

....but not consulted simply about making a trade that won't affect payroll much either way.