Mychal Givens Traded to the Colorado Rockies for Three

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Sing it, bru!
Jeter sucked on defense, but he’s a YANKEE, so Damn the stats and make him unanimous.

Although I’m quite surprised Pedro Alvarez isn’t on the list.

Every list of "worst ever in MLB" is really "worst ever among players who were allowed to play for a long time despite their shortcomings." 

Ty Wigginton was a way worse shortstop than Jeter, but that's why he barely played there.  Adam Dunn probably was a -100 shortstop (per year), but nobody wanted to find out.

Alvarez isn't on the list because he had less than 5000 innings at third.  Jeter had 23,000 at short.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, CarrRun49 said:

Couldn't that be said about all players in the major leagues?  That's like saying "so and so doesn't get to too many balls in the outfield, but when it's hit within 15' of him, he catches it." 

Mark Reynolds and Chris Davis both had partial seasons at third where they fielded under .900.  Which until I saw it happen I didn't think was possible without one of those 1800s gloves and some serious debris on the field.

[Philip]

59 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Every list of "worst ever in MLB" is really "worst ever among players who were allowed to play for a long time despite their shortcomings." 

Ty Wigginton was a way worse shortstop than Jeter, but that's why he barely played there.  Adam Dunn probably was a -100 shortstop (per year), but nobody wanted to find out.

Alvarez isn't on the list because he had less than 5000 innings at third.  Jeter had 23,000 at short.

Alvarez was horrible everywhere and because he was National League they had to play him somewhere. Giving him 6 million to play for us was inexplicable and beyond excuse.

[DrungoHazewood]

12 minutes ago, Philip said:

Alvarez was horrible everywhere and because he was National League they had to play him somewhere. Giving him 6 million to play for us was inexplicable and beyond excuse.

Alvarez was a DH with a 117 OPS+ in 2016.  He wan average DH being paid to deliver less than a win.  A case of buying a free agent and getting exactly what you paid for.

[Philip]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Alvarez was a DH with a 117 OPS+ in 2016.  He wan average DH being paid to deliver less than a win.  A case of buying a free agent and getting exactly what you paid for.

He was terrible. But the real Issue wasn’t whether he was 1WAR(which cost about 6 million at the time) but whether we had the slightest need for yet another DH-only guy.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

He was terrible. But the real Issue wasn’t whether he was 1WAR(which cost about 6 million at the time) but whether we had the slightest need for yet another DH-only guy.

He forced other players onto the field by his presence.

[DrungoHazewood]

28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He forced other players onto the field by his presence.

Trumbo should have DH'd.  But then you'd need a RFer.  I guess you could come up with a hypothetical where Joey Rickard's decent glove makes up for the 130 points of OPS he was giving up to Alvarez.  You weren't going to sign a player who could both field and hit for $6M, not unless you got really lucky, and the payroll was already as high as it would ever go.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

He was terrible. But the real Issue wasn’t whether he was 1WAR(which cost about 6 million at the time) but whether we had the slightest need for yet another DH-only guy.

I think Alvarez played a very nice niche role for us.  He was worth a win for us in a season where we tied for the wild card.     I’ll take it.  

[Frobby]

15 hours ago, VaBird1 said:

Looks like a good return.  Fangraphs will have them about 12 and 17 in the Os system plus the PTBNL.

Vavra no. 7 (ahead of Diaz!) and Nevin no. 23 per Fangraphs.   https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2020-in-season-prospect-list/summary?sort=-1,1&team=bal

One thing you have to credit Elias for: he’s added a lot of 2B/SS prospects to the organization.    Per Fangraphs, Vavra, Westbury and Servideo all slot ahead of Hall and Grenier.    Not to mention Henderson, who Fangraphs pegs as a 3B but might stick at SS.   Hernaiz and Ortiz are also interesting.     A lot of competition now at those spots.    

[Just Regular]

Terrin appears to be the kid of the Tigers hitting coach, so presumably got above replacement level dad coaching.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Vavra

[Philip]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Alvarez played a very nice niche role for us.  He was worth a win for us in a season where we tied for the wild card.     I’ll take it.  

What would we have gotten from the more suitable player whose spot Alvarez took? The question isn’t Alvarez yes or no. Alvarez was unnecessary. We already had several DH-types. He clogged the roster. He forced Trumbo, disastrously, into the OF. He took a place better used by almost anyone else.

And who would that have been? Remember, one single additional victory and we would have hosted the WC game instead of going to Toronto. It’s purely hypothetical, and useless to debate now, but Alvarez was so limited and so superfluous that whoever we’d have used instead of him would, I am sure, been versatile enough to at least be worth that single game Difference, especially when that person would have allowed Trumbo to avoid playing defense.

[Just Regular]

https://www.startribune.com/joe-vavra-monitors-from-detroit-as-son-terrin-becomes-gophers-all-america/484297341/

The hometown papers Father/Son piece as Terrin breaking out in college.

[VaBird1]

8 hours ago, Frobby said:

Vavra no. 7 (ahead of Diaz!) and Nevin no. 23 per Fangraphs.   https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2020-in-season-prospect-list/summary?sort=-1,1&team=bal

One thing you have to credit Elias for: he’s added a lot of 2B/SS prospects to the organization.    Per Fangraphs, Vavra, Westbury and Servideo all slot ahead of Hall and Grenier.    Not to mention Henderson, who Fangraphs pegs as a 3B but might stick at SS.   Hernaiz and Ortiz are also interesting.     A lot of competition now at those spots.    

That’s great!  They changed Vavra from a 40 to a 45.

[Roll Tide]

12 hours ago, Philip said:

He was terrible. But the real Issue wasn’t whether he was 1WAR(which cost about 6 million at the time) but whether we had the slightest need for yet another DH-only guy.

The Orioles were enamored with Homeruns for quite a stretch that included picking up Alvarez, Trumbo, Davis and a number of other non fielding one dimensional players.

[sportsfan8703]

Stating the obvious but if Nevin could play 3B in the MLB or if Vavra could play SS, then this trade becomes that much better. 
 

Nevin absolutely dominated the Arizona Fall League in 2018 as a 21 yo. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=nevin-000tyl

Will the power develop for Nevin.  Good walk/strikeout numbers.  13 HR in AA with 26 doubles.  Wasn’t old for the league.  Nevin could be a platoon bat at 3B or and option for 1B get rid of Nunez or Mancini.