The second guessing Hyde thread.

[dystopia]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think Hyde is a good manager. Let me get that out there right now. Also, I don't think he has a ton of say in his roster and I also believe he's told by the analytics guy when to PH or who to use in what situations. It's just how baseball is done now.

Removing Bradish so early in game one was a mistake in my opinion. Pitching Webb in a one-run game was a mistake. Having Baker on this roster is all was a mistake, so I can't fault him for trying to use him down 3-runs and hope to get an inning out of him. It's not his fault that the moment was too big for Baker.

Now, bringing in Webb with the bases loaded was a head scratcher. Why would he not use Wells there? I know Wells has a penchant for giving up homers, but literally Webb put the game out of reach the game before by giving up a homer. He's a waiver claim who should be in a mop up role, not pitching in one-run games. 

But it all goes back to Elias not getting an impact bullpen arm at the trade deadline. He rolled the dice that his waiver claims and rookies and 2nd year players would hold up and unfortunately, a few have not. 

Obviously losing Bautista is showing it's head by having a guy like Baker on the playoff roster and Webb pitching in key moments. 

 

 

I don’t know why he took Coulombe out. 

[DirtyBird]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Having Baker on this roster is all was a mistake, so I can't fault him for trying to use him down 3-runs and hope to get an inning out of him. It's not his fault that the moment was too big for Baker.

It was the 3rd inning. Why are you trying to get 1 inning out of a guy when you need someone to come in and get you at least 3 innings and give the offense a change to get you back in the game?

[DirtyBird]

3 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I don’t know why he took Coulombe out. 

Because he burnt through the pen like a drunken sailor in game 1 and everyone was pitching on back to back days.

Edited October 9, 2023 by DirtyBird

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

But it all goes back to Elias not getting an impact bullpen arm at the trade deadline. He rolled the dice that his waiver claims and rookies and 2nd year players would hold up and unfortunately, a few have not. 

Obviously losing Bautista is showing it's head by having a guy like Baker on the playoff roster and Webb pitching in key moments. 

 

 

I agree that Elias screwed the pooch by not getting bullpen arms at the deadline.  And not putting Irvin on the roster is at his feet and Hyde's fee too, IMO.  I am assuming the two work together to figure out the roster.

I don't understand what not having Bautista here has to do with anything though, especially yesterday.  I get that if we have Bautista, we might not have been treated to Baker as a roster spot isn't available for him.  But what does not having Bautista have to do with Webb in a key situation yesterday?

[Frobby]

I am not a big second-guesser of managers.   But for me, if Hyde has had a flaw this year, it’s been his reluctance to utilize relievers for multiple innings and to establish that role for a pitcher or two.  I felt he underutilized Cole Irvin when he was on the roster, I didn’t understand the decision to send him down during the stretch run, and I also didn’t see much point in having Jack Flaherty on the roster and only using him once for one inning in the final 11 games of the year.   And honestly, that would be a good role for Tyler Wells this postseason.  I don’t like the idea of putting in a Bryan Baker type in the third inning of a game after he’s hardly been on the major league roster since July.   

Did any of that cost us this game?  I’m not prepared to say that.  But it’s just a macro issue that puzzles me. 
 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Frobby

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I agree that Elias screwed the pooch by not getting bullpen arms at the deadline.  And not putting Irvin on the roster is at his feet and Hyde's fee too, IMO.  I am assuming the two work together to figure out the roster.

I don't understand what not having Bautista here has to do with anything though, especially yesterday.  I get that if we have Bautista, we might not have been treated to Baker as a roster spot isn't available for him.  But what does not having Bautista have to do with Webb in a key situation yesterday?

Because not having Bautista moves everyone back one spot. Maybe Wells is pitching in that spot instead of being saved for later? If Bautista is still in the pen, you also now have Cano available to come into a situation where a ground ball is needed instead of keeping him to close. 

 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Because not having Bautista moves everyone back one spot. Maybe Wells is pitching in that spot instead of being saved for later? If Bautista is still in the pen, you also now have Cano available to come into a situation where a ground ball is needed instead of keeping him to close. 

 

I get that everyone's moved back a spot, I just thought Webb was the wrong guy to be in that situation and the absence of Bautista shouldn't be dictating what's going on that early in the game.   Bases loaded, game in danger of getting away from you, you don't bring that guy in.  I'd have gone with a guy like Perez.  Early for him, but you need a strikeout or a ground ball and that's a guy who can get it for you.  If he's not available later in the game, so be it...worry about that then. 

 

[ChipTait]

Why not PH for Mountcastle (with O'Hearn) with runners on 2nd & 3rd when Texas brought in a gas-can RH reliever?  

[LA2]

12 hours ago, 24fps said:

In Game 1 the O's struck out 16 Rangers and in Game 2 they scored 8 runs.  In both cases that wasn't enough to win, but that hardly qualifies as "choking."

No one is saying the whole team choked--the back end of the bullpen, Hicks, Henderson, Mateo offensively, and Mountcastle, among others, certainly haven't and Bradish was level-headed enough to recover from a bad inning. But walking 11 batters yesterday, incl. Seager a record number of times (he's good, but c'mon he doesn't warrant Bonds, Jr. terror), and Grayson's regression were certainly examples of not being able to deal with the pressure.

[LA2]

18 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

You thought relying on a guy claimed on waivers from the Angels would be a good idea? Sure, I wouldn't have guessed two homers but Webb being actually good also seems wildly improbable on paper. Anyway, I meant more generally that many of us wanted the club to add a high leverage reliever at the trade deadline.

Webb fits into the same category of waiver pick-ups, dumped free agents, and ST invites as Cionel Perez, Hicks, O'Hearn, Urias, Mateo, and others that have made it possible for the Orioles to be in the postseason. So being "claimed on waivers from the Angels" is not a valid disqualification. Webb was put in a desperate situation by Bryan Baker walking the bases loaded, Grayson before that choking in a lousy 1.2 innings, and Hyde for not yanking Baker a batter earlier and for hoarding his best bullpen arms for a fantasy future.

Edited October 9, 2023 by LA2

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Webb fits into the same category of waiver pick-ups, dumped free agents, and ST invites as Cionel Perez, Hicks, O'Hearn, Urias, Mateo, and others that have made it possible for the Orioles to be in the postseason. So being "claimed on waivers from the Angels" is not a valid disqualification. Webb was put in a desperate situation by Bryan Baker walking the bases loaded, Grayson before that choking in a a lousy 1.2 innings, and Hyde for not yanking Baker a batter earlier and hoarding his best bullpen arms for a fantasy future.

We have had time to audition, develop, and fix the Perez/Hicks/Urias group. Webb was picked up in the middle of a pennant run along with Fuji at a time when Texas got Montgomery and Scherzer, and Houston got Verlander. Webb is a fine pitcher and has some upside but not the sort of high leverage arm some of us were looking for. Honestly I am not sure he is better than Baumann. I agree Baker was also awful and adding him to the roster at this point was a complete mystery, and again, the organization should have been better prepared. 

[24fps]

41 minutes ago, LA2 said:

No one is saying the whole team choked--the back end of the bullpen, Hicks, Henderson, Mateo offensively, and Mountcastle, among others, certainly haven't and Bradish was level-headed enough to recover from a bad inning. But walking 11 batters yesterday, incl. Seager a record number of times (he's good, but c'mon he doesn't warrant Bonds, Jr. terror), and Grayson's regression were certainly examples of not being able to deal with the pressure.

Actually I was responding to the post directly above the one I made and I should have quoted it directly.

The phrase I was responding to was " ...it got me thinking that if the rest of the country thinks we have a great BP, we look like bigger choke artists than we already are".  First of all "choke" is a loaded term if there ever was one and maybe that's what happened and maybe not.  I think we're safe in assuming the pressure got to GR, but Baker walked 3 in 0.1 inning so did he choke or is he simply a bad pitcher?  I'm guessing it's the latter.  Flaherty walked 3 in 2.0 innings along with giving up 2 hits and an earned run.  He's a bad pitcher but he has post-season experience in 2019 and 2020.  Did he choke or simply revert to all-to-familiar mean?  And the same could be said for Webb. 

 

[sportsfan8703]

It’s hard to blame Hyde when we walked the world last night. I’m sure they said don’t let Seager beat you, but also you just can’t walk him every AB. Haha

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I get that everyone's moved back a spot, I just thought Webb was the wrong guy to be in that situation and the absence of Bautista shouldn't be dictating what's going on that early in the game.   Bases loaded, game in danger of getting away from you, you don't bring that guy in.  I'd have gone with a guy like Perez.  Early for him, but you need a strikeout or a ground ball and that's a guy who can get it for you.  If he's not available later in the game, so be it...worry about that then. 

 

The problem is you need to start warming guys up several batters in advance. You don't have the luxury of knowing exactly what the situation is going to be, only what batter they are going to face. Also I believe it was a RHB and we don't have a lot of RHP options outside of Cano. I guess Wells?

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Because not having Bautista moves everyone back one spot. Maybe Wells is pitching in that spot instead of being saved for later? If Bautista is still in the pen, you also now have Cano available to come into a situation where a ground ball is needed instead of keeping him to close. 

 

And then Means going down kept one of Kremer or Gibson from definitively being in the bullpen