The second guessing Hyde thread.

[SteveA]

23 minutes ago, kaj21206 said:

Maybe Hyde wants Cano & Bautista rested for the Rays next week.  He may value those games more.  I wouldn't be surprised if Adley has his first full day off tomorrow as we have the 3rd catcher.  If we had played an AL East team tonight, Cano probably pitches the 8th.  

It's got noting to do with resting for a specific game or opponebt.

It's a matter of just not overusing people, any more than you have to, over the course of the year.

Cano threw 32 pitches on Thursday, way more than he usually does.   And so did Bautista.   Cano also went Tuesday.   Hyde felt after the 32 pitch outing, he wanted to give Cano two days off.    And he probably didn't want to use Cano AND Bautista two days after the long 32 pitch outing, because then neither would be available tomorrow.   So he chose to not use Cano tonight.   He would have used Bautista in the 9th (and then probably not had him for tomorrow).

It's not a matter of prioritizing one game as more important as another, it's a matter of not overworking guys any more than absolutely necessary so they still might be able to pitch in August and September.

With two full days off I'm sure he'll now use Cano and Bautista if the game dictates tomorrow.

[Frobby]

I think Hyde made a mistake last night to warm up Bautista but then rush Voth into the game when the O’s took a 4-run lead.  I’m generally of the view that if you warm up your closet, you should use him, which they ended up doing anyway. 

I was really pissed at Voth for coming into a 6-2 game and walking the first two batters he faced, but I’m not sure he was properly warmed up.
 

 

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Hyde made a mistake last night to warm up Bautista but then rush Voth into the game when the O’s took a 4-run lead.  I’m generally of the view that if you warm up your closet, you should use him, which they ended up doing anyway. 

I was really pissed at Voth for coming into a 6-2 game and walking the first two batters he faced, but I’m not sure he was properly warmed up.
 

 

I was pissed at Voth as well but he didn't walk the first two batters.   He did walk the first and go 3-0 on the 2nd guy.   He had to lay a fastball in there at 3-2 which was smoked into RF for a single.   Next was the seeing eye single which really wasn't Voth's fault.  Fairly soft contact.  Cardinal sin walking the leadoff hitter with a 4 run lead but perhaps he didn't have time to get properly warmed up.

[Aristotelian]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Hyde made a mistake last night to warm up Bautista but then rush Voth into the game when the O’s took a 4-run lead.  I’m generally of the view that if you warm up your closet, you should use him, which they ended up doing anyway. 

I was really pissed at Voth for coming into a 6-2 game and walking the first two batters he faced, but I’m not sure he was properly warmed up.
 

 

Tony noted that as well in the game thread. The other issue is that Voth then came in the game without having a chance to get completely warm. I will say it's hard to tell on the broadcast whether a guy is actually warmed up or if they have just thrown a few. Bautista seems to be having some fatigue issues this year so if you have a chance to avoid using him, you take it. So I see where Hyde was coming from, although it definitely did not work out. As it was, the main consequence was making the game closer than it needed to be and using Voth unnecessarily (Bautista pitches in either scenario and did not look worse for wear). 

[Pickles]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Hyde made a mistake last night to warm up Bautista but then rush Voth into the game when the O’s took a 4-run lead.  I’m generally of the view that if you warm up your closet, you should use him, which they ended up doing anyway. 

I was really pissed at Voth for coming into a 6-2 game and walking the first two batters he faced, but I’m not sure he was properly warmed up.
 

 

If I was going to criticize Hyde it would be for that: He warms up his relievers without using them way too often for my taste.  Buck made a point of rarely doing it, but it's a consistent pattern with Hyde's handling of the pen.

That said, the pen has been very good for going on two years now, mainly utilizing a bunch of castoffs, and there hasn't been any unusual injury clusters, so he must be doing something right.

[celery]

I think this was the second game where I really disliked Hyde using McCann as a pinch hitter. It seemed completely unnecessary to use McCann over McKenna in that situation. It just isn't worth the risk if AR tweaks something and Vavra has to be your catcher.

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, celery said:

I think this was the second game where I really disliked Hyde using McCann as a pinch hitter. It seemed completely unnecessary to use McCann over McKenna in that situation. It just isn't worth the risk if AR tweaks something and Vavra has to be your catcher.

Is it possible that McKenna is hurt? You would think it would have been him instead of Vavra in RF if he is 100%. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

22 minutes ago, celery said:

I think this was the second game where I really disliked Hyde using McCann as a pinch hitter. It seemed completely unnecessary to use McCann over McKenna in that situation. It just isn't worth the risk if AR tweaks something and Vavra has to be your catcher.

I agree. Also, while Stowers isn't hitting much of anything right now, he can hit lefties

[rm5678]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Is it possible that McKenna is hurt? You would think it would have been him instead of Vavra in RF if he is 100%. 

I was thinking that too. Even with McKenna's dropped fly ball at Fenway, he has consistently been used as a late-inning defensive replacement. I can't imagine that Hyde trusts Vavra more than McKenna in RF.

[rm5678]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Is it possible that McKenna is hurt? You would think it would have been him instead of Vavra in RF if he is 100%. 

Roch just tweeted that McKenna has a sore back. If he has to go on the IL within 24 hours, then Joey Ortiz will be recalled. Ortiz is already there and on the taxi squad.

[seak05]

I said in the Tuesday game thread that I didn’t like Hyde using Cano for the 9th with a 4 run lead. I get that Irvin is a “long guy” but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of pitching an inning, saving Cano. And it would have avoided the situation we saw today, where Hyde was staying away from Cano, because it would have been three in a row.

Then today, when the O’s could have used a long man, when Wells left after 5, he avoided Irvin again, and burned through 4 pitchers.

Hyde burning through his bullpen seems to be a pattern, and why have Irvin up if you’re not willing to pitch him 

 

[AnythingO's]

47 minutes ago, seak05 said:

I said in the Tuesday game thread that I didn’t like Hyde using Cano for the 9th with a 4 run lead. I get that Irvin is a “long guy” but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of pitching an inning, saving Cano. And it would have avoided the situation we saw today, where Hyde was staying away from Cano, because it would have been three in a row. Then today, when the O’s could have used a long man, when Wells left after 5, he avoided Irvin again, and burned through 4 pitchers. Hyde burning through his bullpen seems to be a pattern, and why have Irvin up if you’re not willing to pitch him 

Both Baumann (5/12, 1BB) and Baker (10/24, 2BB), 2/3 of an inning each, are currently walking too many guys and throwing too may pitches to be in a close game. You have Voth and Irvin to go multi innings but Hyde goes to1 inning guys again. After Wells, either Voth or Irvin should have gone for bulk innings. Why Voth for 0.1 and Coulombe for 1.1? Makes no sense. 

[kaj21206]

I've been an Orioles fan since the 71 World Series.  I've come to accept five man rotations and the fact that starting pitchers are pulled at 100 pitches, but I really don't understand current bullpen usage.  Irvin was acquired because his ability to pitch late in games.  When Wells had to leave after 5 innings, why not have Irvin pitch the rest of the game or at least until match up time in the 8th/9th?  Regardless of the outcome, we would have a fresh bullpen for the Jays series.  It seems to me that no relief pitchers pitch more than 2 innings at time.  The only times relievers pitched more than two innings this season were Wells in relief of Bradish in Texas and Hall during the Detroit doubleheader.  We always seem to be short on available relievers even with an 8 man pen.   That makes no sense. Voth & Baumann should be pitching 2-3 innings regularly, especially Voth.   He doesn't handle inherited runners.    Has the long relief pitcher disappeared?   

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, seak05 said:

I said in the Tuesday game thread that I didn’t like Hyde using Cano for the 9th with a 4 run lead. I get that Irvin is a “long guy” but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of pitching an inning, saving Cano. And it would have avoided the situation we saw today, where Hyde was staying away from Cano, because it would have been three in a row.

Then today, when the O’s could have used a long man, when Wells left after 5, he avoided Irvin again, and burned through 4 pitchers.

Hyde burning through his bullpen seems to be a pattern, and why have Irvin up if you’re not willing to pitch him 

 

I guess they would have used Irvin in an emergency situation but I'm guessing they're trying to save him for the Rodriguez start. 

 

I expect some BP movement before tomorrow's game. Obviously Givens but I wonder if they have someone else that they plan on bringing in.

[Moshagge3]

20 minutes ago, kaj21206 said:

I've been an Orioles fan since the 71 World Series.  I've come to accept five man rotations and the fact that starting pitchers are pulled at 100 pitches, but I really don't understand current bullpen usage.  Irvin was acquired because his ability to pitch late in games.  When Wells had to leave after 5 innings, why not have Irvin pitch the rest of the game or at least until match up time in the 8th/9th?  Regardless of the outcome, we would have a fresh bullpen for the Jays series.  It seems to me that no relief pitchers pitch more than 2 innings at time.  The only times relievers pitched more than two innings this season were Wells in relief of Bradish in Texas and Hall during the Detroit doubleheader.  We always seem to be short on available relievers even with an 8 man pen.   That makes no sense. Voth & Baumann should be pitching 2-3 innings regularly, especially Voth.   He doesn't handle inherited runners.    Has the long relief pitcher disappeared?   

I bet Hyde would have let Baumann go two innings if he had been good. Unfortunately, he was not.