Loewen speaks to Roch

[section18]

AJ and Zaun will do just fine. Good riddance. We will not miss this guy. I like signed contracts rather than handskakes but your word should be worth something. He's like some of the candidates running for office apparently. Say what you need to say to get a favorable reaction and shake hands and then walk away and do the opposite when you have another audience. He obviously liked Cito better than Andy. Andy did not deserve this insult. He's a first class businessman and obviously the hot shot former #1 pick didn't respect him, his former teammates or the rest of the organization who sank millions of dollars into his pockets.

Andy will get the job done this winter and I think Peter will let him do whatever it takes to improve the team.

[section18]

If you are reading this Roch I would like to read some quotes from DT and Crowley about this turn your back and fly away move by loew the low flying under the radar blue jay.

[Mackus]

I don't know why I'm surprised to see so much anger here, but I am.

I'll still be rooting for Loewen to do well, just not against the O's.

[TiredofLosing20]

Loewen? Who is that? I have no memory or knowledge of this Loewen you speak of.

On an unrelated note, if a player (lets call him Player A) opts to break a gentleman's agreement with a team that has invested large sums of money in him and has given him multiple chances and is willing to wait to see if Player A can redefine himself simply for the chance to play for his favorite childhood team should we get mad? Does anyone think this is a clear indication of the integrity and loyalty of Player A? Does anyone question whether or not Player A will have zero concern for his childhood favorite if he ever makes it big and then becomes a FA? Anyway, I digress.

Again, I am not sure who you all are talking about.

[Hooded Viper]

Wow man this is a real board splitter here. People are really taking this personally and I don't think it is acceptable for anyone to personally attack any poster for their opinion, it is only a game after all.

That being said, I am certainly dissapointed in AL's decision and I have to admit I called him a few colorful metaphors when I first found out, but then I thought about it and I can't blame a 25 year old kid whose career is hanging in the balance and is presented with an opportunity to play for the team he grew up rooting for. That relieved my angst quite a bit.

[Pedro Cerrano]

It's comments like this that make me really question the allegiance many had to Loewen in the first place to turn on him so quickly ..... besides the original post in this thread being the most classless post I've seen on this board in many, many years.

Separate from this thread, I find the entire Loewen saga these past 24 hours to be eye-opening. First, Roch's near guarantee is comical in retrospect. I know he just reports and he does not the cause of any news, but one has to question if he is just a robot reporting what he hears or if he is capable of applying any sort of professional journalistic doubt that would cover both or more sides of a story. I know he is well-liked here, but he sure seems to have completely missed the boat regarding what was actually happening in this story. Second, baseball is both a business and a game. Sometimes there is loyalty, sometimes FO types take risks, sometimes players get to fulfill dreams and join their childhood dream teams or play for a team in their country, which kind of all brings a human touch to business decisions. Third, reports that our FO is "steamed' at the Toronto organization and may try to exact some revenge also contain the most classless and reactionary thoughts by our FO I have EVER seen posted here from an insider. This is disappointing to me in several respects the most obvious being what appeared to be a well-organized and professionally run organization under AndyM - to hear comments seen in other threads is a poor reflection on our FO, IMO.

Since all the threads have since been merged I am assuming you're referring to my post.

Not sure what aspect of it makes it classless -- some on here are quite upset at what Loewen did (myself included). It really shows that in this day and age everything is me-first.

Others choose to simply forgive the man, wish him the best and, in extreme circumstances, actually hope he makes it with the Jays so we can cheer him on at Oriole Park.

Either way, the fact that you think my post is classless has kept me up now for several nights in a row -- you have no idea how much it is tormenting the inner fabric of my soul.

[Mackus]

Wow man this is a real board splitter here. People are really taking this personally and I don't think it is acceptable for anyone to personally attack any poster for their opinion, it is only a game after all.

That being said, I am certainly dissapointed in AL's decision and I have to admit I called him a few colorful metaphors when I first found out, but then I thought about it and I can't blame a 25 year old kid whose career is hanging in the balance and is presented with an opportunity to play for the team he grew up rooting for. That relieved my angst quite a bit.

Well said all around.

[Pedro Cerrano]

It's comments like this that make me really question the allegiance many had to Loewen in the first place to turn on him so quickly ..... besides the original post in this thread being the most classless post I've seen on this board in many, many years.

Separate from this thread, I find the entire Loewen saga these past 24 hours to be eye-opening. First, Roch's near guarantee is comical in retrospect. I know he just reports and he does not the cause of any news, but one has to question if he is just a robot reporting what he hears or if he is capable of applying any sort of professional journalistic doubt that would cover both or more sides of a story. I know he is well-liked here, but he sure seems to have completely missed the boat regarding what was actually happening in this story. Second, baseball is both a business and a game. Sometimes there is loyalty, sometimes FO types take risks, sometimes players get to fulfill dreams and join their childhood dream teams or play for a team in their country, which kind of all brings a human touch to business decisions. Third, reports that our FO is "steamed' at the Toronto organization and may try to exact some revenge also contain the most classless and reactionary thoughts by our FO I have EVER seen posted here from an insider. This is disappointing to me in several respects the most obvious being what appeared to be a well-organized and professionally run organization under AndyM - to hear comments seen in other threads is a poor reflection on our FO, IMO.

Did you ever stop and think that maybe you're in the minority in terms of how to react to this and mine and the FOs "lack of class" might be justified?

You seem very quick to anoint yourself a judge of character which is disappointing because I usually really respect your opinion on stuff around here.

From what I can tell, Loewen completely stabbed us in the back. Now maybe all these reports I'm reading are wrong and if that's the case I will eat crow. And while I doubt that we will be seeing stories in the coming weeks about how the Orioles simply decided to let Loewen go with full knowledge that he was likely to leave, you all have my word that I'll retract every nasty thing I've posted these last few days.

Still, it remains mind-blowing to me that people are so shocked and appalled that some posters took what Loewen did personally.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Wow man this is a real board splitter here. People are really taking this personally and I don't think it is acceptable for anyone to personally attack any poster for their opinion, it is only a game after all.

That being said, I am certainly dissapointed in AL's decision and I have to admit I called him a few colorful metaphors when I first found out, but then I thought about it and I can't blame a 25 year old kid whose career is hanging in the balance and is presented with an opportunity to play for the team he grew up rooting for. That relieved my angst quite a bit.

It doesn't bother you that after all the time and money that the O's put into this kid he was able to simply say "screw you" to the O's and sign with a rival? I'm 26 years old, and I have a conscience. I don't think age has much to do with this...only character.

[Dipper9]

Perhaps now the great Blue Jays/Orioles rivalry of the 90's will return?

Well, it WOULD make for a pretty good feud, what with us both playing for 4th pace and all!

[Tx Oriole]

I am glad he signed with the B Jays. Good for him. Well he ever make it to the big club? I doubt it very seriously.

[Dipper9]

Did you ever stop and think that maybe you're in the minority in terms of how to react to this and mine and the FOs "lack of class" might be justified?

You seem very quick to anoint yourself a judge of character which is disappointing because I usually really respect your opinion on stuff around here.

From what I can tell, Loewen completely stabbed us in the back. Now maybe all these reports I'm reading are wrong and if that's the case I will eat crow. And while I doubt that we will be seeing stories in the coming weeks about how the Orioles simply decided to let Loewen go with full knowledge that he was likely to leave, you all have my word that I'll retract every nasty thing I've posted these last few days.

Still, it remains mind-blowing to me that people are so shocked and appalled that some posters took what Loewen did personally.

I have not had a chance to read every post in this thread, but did anyone else hear BRob on the Ravens pre-game show on 1300 yesterday? They asked him about it, and he said he was shocked and surprised that Loewen left to sign with Toronto. He said the way AL talked all the time about how grateful he was to the Orioles for giving him a second chance to make it, he was really surprised to hear he left. That is straight from a teammates mouth. No report. No hearsay. Nobody in a newspaper cropping snipplets of info. Roberts said he was shocked by this news.

[Mackus]

It doesn't bother you that after all the time and money that the O's put into this kid he was able to simply say "screw you" to the O's and sign with a rival? I'm 26 years old, and I have a conscience. I don't think age has much to do with this...only character.

If you were a Blue Jays prospect and they cut you, would you sign with the Orioles if offered a contract?

I would.

Plus, with Loewen's case, we really don't know how on board he was with the plan of releasing him and resigning. Its also not like Loewen tricked the O's into releasing him. The plan was to release him and sign him to a minimum minor league contract. Once he was offered more from the Blue Jays, that plan is gone. The Orioles aren't showing Loewen loyalty by trying him as a hitter, they are trying to get value out of him is the bottom line there, but trying to do it risk free (i.e. inexpensively). Its not disloyal of Loewen's plans to change if a better opportunity arises, seeing the it was the Orioles that allowed this opportunity to arise in the first place.

This isn't the same as the Carlos Boozer thing with the Cavs in the NBA a few years ago. That was a case of the Cavs going out of their way to not tender Boozer a contract for the express purpose of then giving him more money and a big time deal as an unrestricted FA, then him screwing them and jumping ship. The Orioles were trying to save money here and reward themselves by adding another potential prospect (even if he was a very longshot). I'm disappointed that Loewen didn't resign here, but I won't bash a guy for taking more money from his boyhood favorite team. The fact that we've invested a lot of money in him through his original deal when drafted is absolutely irrelevant to this current situation. He doesn't owe the team anything for that.

[Pedro Cerrano]

If you were a Blue Jays prospect and they cut you, would you sign with the Orioles if offered a contract?

I would.

Plus, with Loewen's case, we really don't know how on board he was with the plan of releasing him and resigning. Its also not like Loewen tricked the O's into releasing him. The plan was to release him and sign him to a minimum minor league contract. Once he was offered more from the Blue Jays, that plan is gone. The Orioles aren't showing Loewen loyalty by trying him as a hitter, they are trying to get value out of him is the bottom line there, but trying to do it risk free (i.e. inexpensively). Its not disloyal of Loewen's plans to change if a better opportunity arises, seeing the it was the Orioles that allowed this opportunity to arise in the first place.

If everything we've read is true about what Loewen and the O's discussed then you are gravely oversimplifying things.

Like I said, if it turns out that the O's released him without any sort of preconceived agreement or silent deal in place, then that's fine.

BTW, I'm not accusing Loewen of doing anything illegal. I'm well aware that once he's released he can do whatever he wants. I'm just accusing him of having no character or morals to basically stab the team in the back that drafted him 4th overall, gave him a nice rookie deal and stood by his side through injury after injury.

And it's not like Loewen actually did anything to merit all of this treatment -- he was an average pitcher at best even when he was healthy.

The whole thing just stinks to me.

[Dipper9]

If you were a Blue Jays prospect and they cut you, would you sign with the Orioles if offered a contract?

I would.

Plus, with Loewen's case, we really don't know how on board he was with the plan of releasing him and resigning. Its also not like Loewen tricked the O's into releasing him. The plan was to release him and sign him to a minimum minor league contract. Once he was offered more from the Blue Jays, that plan is gone. The Orioles aren't showing Loewen loyalty by trying him as a hitter, they are trying to get value out of him is the bottom line there, but trying to do it risk free (i.e. inexpensively). Its not disloyal of Loewen's plans to change if a better opportunity arises, seeing the it was the Orioles that allowed this opportunity to arise in the first place.

Are you advocating that the Orioles should have paid him more money for the oft chance that he MAY someday make it to the majors? That the O's took a cheap way out by cutting him with the intention that the O's and Loewen had agreed to bring him back? That's absurd!