I realize we have no one else to start, but...

[eddie83]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

So they weren't prepared?

I think it’s 100% fair to say this.I doubt they thought it would be this bad. That’s on them. I do think it’s easier said than done to add arms. They needed at some pitching versions of Galvis and instead have gotten 2010 Garrett Atkins. 
 

I didn’t complain much before the year but I did say over and over how unproven the entire staff was.  Back in spring we had people hoping these young arms could give them 30 starts. Was never going to happen. 
 

Last year really hurt with the current crop of arms at the upper levels - AAA, MLB.  At least you get a better feel and full season of innings with a normal year. They banked too much on internal improvement coming off of last year. It has blown up in their faces. Rebuild or not this pitching is a mess.  

[LocoChris]

25 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

They rolled the dice that the pitching wouldn’t be this bad. Not that I thought it would be good but this is close to a worse case scenario. 
 

They needed a couple of arms to pull a 2007 Steve Trachsel type of a season. They are in scramble mode. 

You have a rotation that's Means, a #5 guy (Harvey) and then a bunch of wannabe major leaguers. If the FO wasn't prepared for a trainwreck then there needs to be some people fired.

[eddie83]

Just now, LocoChris said:

You have a rotation that's Means, a #5 guy (Harvey) and then a bunch of wannabe major leaguers. If the FO wasn't prepared for a trainwreck then there needs to be some people fired.

Elias? Sig? 
 

I think there are multiple things in play here. It may not have made any difference at all but coming off of last year made what they did even more risky. These young arms hardly had any innings last year.  Now they are making that final step. I said back in spring I never recalled a more unproven pitching staff in my life. The 89 team came to mind but they had more veteran arms than this one. They aren’t spending right now and it’s hard to find that serviceable starter for cheap. I think that was the key. Felix got hurt, LeBlanc is gone and Harvey is struggling. Elias did not find any arms to help out with this current team. That is on him. I don’t think it makes him a bad GM. I think it’s fair to be critical though. 
 

 

The lineup isn’t great but it’s not as embarrassing as the pitching. A couple of holes stand out like 2nd and 3rd. Catcher is bad but have a solution there.  
 

This current crop of young arms has either middling stuff and/or middling command. I had some hope for these guys but was far from banking on them. It’s one thing to have 1/2 of those guys in the rotation. We have 3 with a struggling vet in Harvey. 

[Can_of_corn]

38 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I think it’s 100% fair to say this.I doubt they thought it would be this bad. That’s on them. I do think it’s easier said than done to add arms. They needed at some pitching versions of Galvis and instead have gotten 2010 Garrett Atkins. 
 

I didn’t complain much before the year but I did say over and over how unproven the entire staff was.  Back in spring we had people hoping these young arms could give them 30 starts. Was never going to happen. 
 

Last year really hurt with the current crop of arms at the upper levels - AAA, MLB.  At least you get a better feel and full season of innings with a normal year. They banked too much on internal improvement coming off of last year. It has blown up in their faces. Rebuild or not this pitching is a mess.  

Every team had to deal with the pandemic.  I'm pretty tired of that excuse.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Every team had to deal with the pandemic.  I'm pretty tired of that excuse.

Referring to trying a starting staff of unproven AAA arms. That aspect. These aren’t high end arms like the Tigers 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Referring to trying a starting staff of unproven AAA arms. That aspect. These aren’t high end arms like the Tigers 

Don't care.

Get it done.

This isn't the level for excuses.

The O's were not under any constraints that other teams weren't. 

Bringing in Harvey and King Felix isn't a plan of action.

[eddie83]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Don't care.

Get it done.

This isn't the level for excuses.

The O's were not under any constraints that other teams weren't. 

Bringing in Harvey and King Felix isn't a plan of action.

Not an excuse. I said that trying this plan coming off of last year made it even riskier. I said clearly it has blown up in their faces. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Bringing in Harvey and King Felix isn't a plan of action.

Technically it *is* a plan of action.  They made a plan to bring in two over the hill guys and acted on it.

It was a bad plan of action, is what you meant to say.

[eddie83]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Technically it *is* a plan of action.  They made a plan to bring in two over the hill guys and acted on it.

It was a bad plan of action, is what you meant to say.

Once again. Completely fair to say. It clearly hasn’t worked. It’s one thing to plug a hole or 2 in the lineup it’s another to plug 80% of your rotation.

 

It has snowballed and the reinforcement is coming from where? 

[eddie83]

Who in the current rotation would you count on next year outside of Means? Nobody. 
 

That may change by end of season but not right now.  

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, eddie83 said:

It has snowballed and the reinforcement is coming from where? 

Dunno.  Like Leslie Chow said:

"Not my problem."

[eddie83]

They need to at least plug one of the infield holes and at a minimum 2 rotation spots from outside the organization this off-season. A reliable vet in the pen would not hurt either. 

[Gurgi]

Seen Galvis not make another easy play is pissing me off.  Inning should be over yet Means is still pitching because Galvis is a not really a big league SS.  

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I really can't stand the "move him to the bullpen" idea that comes when a guy isn't doing well as a starter.  It works sometimes, it's worth exploring but it doesn't necessarily fix what's wrong.  It doesn't all of a sudden give a pitcher a better fastball, better secondary offerings or better command.  What it does is limits the amount of times a lineup can see a guy, but if the stuff is already underwhelming, IMO you're delaying the inevitable.  

Harvey is at the end of his rope when it comes to pitching.  I think we should try him out of the pen because...well, it can't make things worse.  But I'm under no illusion that coming out of the Orioles pen will be the thing that gets him back to being a productive pitcher.  

Well, pitchers do tend to see an uptick in stuff because they can go “all out” for an inning or 2.

It doesn’t always work but starting isn’t working for Harvey and it hasn’t for years.

Trying him in the pen is fine.  You can DFA a few guys and move him in.

[Brooks The Great]

DFA Harvey, demote Wilkerson, bring up Lowther and Vavra.