Mora has minor shoulder surgery; Roberts & Markakis talks slow

[LookinUp]

My thing is, I don't buy that as an excuse though.

He has been talking to us for months now and has been talking to us since the offseason started...ie before FA even starts.

So, why engage in this negotiations if you don't even know what you want yet? Its just not that logical to me.

If Nick wants an extension that's outside of the typical extension parameters (Rios, Longoria), why would we just cave? I'm not understanding this position at all.

Maybe Teixeira/Burnett have nothing to do with this. Maybe the negotiations are just at an impasse. This actually does happen every now and then.

Your position is certainly more accommodating than mine would be. That's fine and reasonable in many ways. However, it's also how an organization ends up spending like the Yankees in the long run.

I hope AM can navigate these waters very well. You don't think he can. I hope you're wrong. We'll see.

[Sports Guy]

If Nick wants an extension that's outside of the typical extension parameters (Rios, Longoria), why would we just cave? I'm not understanding this position at all.

Maybe Teixeira/Burnett have nothing to do with this. Maybe the negotiations are just at an impasse. This actually does happen every now and then.

Your position is certainly more accommodating than mine would be. That's fine and reasonable in many ways. However, it's also how an organization ends up spending like the Yankees in the long run.

I hope AM can navigate these waters very well. You don't think he can. I hope you're wrong. We'll see.

I have never said this so don't put words into my mouth.

Ultimately, I think Nick gets extended this offseason...I really have very little doubt about that. One thing AM has always done is keep his own.

My problem is the time table it is taking....AM has basically made it known that he can't walk and chew gum at the same time...The longer this drags out, the more it can hurt us doing other things or the more it can hurt us with the markakis extension if AM decides to move onto other things.

It should be done now...As I said back in August, the extension should be done before the offseason started because it is one less thing for AM to do. The more he has to do, the less will get done overall.

[nadecir]

I'd have to think about this and see where the team is with Roberts and other guys this offseason. However, I'd certainly consider trading him if extending him (which would certainly include a raise in the first 3 years of the deal) only gets me one more year. One more year doesn't do much for me.

Even if the Orioles decide to trade Markakis, signing an extension for one more year is in the Orioles best interest. Markakis signed for a reasonable amount for four years is worth more in the trade market than Markakis with no extension and only his three years of arbitration left before free agency.

You can still trade him after signing him to an extension.

[Mackus]

I have never said this so don't put words into my mouth.

Ultimately, I think Nick gets extended this offseason...I really have very little doubt about that. One thing AM has always done is keep his own.

My problem is the time table it is taking....AM has basically made it known that he can't walk and chew gum at the same time...The longer this drags out, the more it can hurt us doing other things or the more it can hurt us with the markakis extension if AM decides to move onto other things.

It should be done now...As I said back in August, the extension should be done before the offseason started because it is one less thing for AM to do. The more he has to do, the less will get done overall.

I agree MacPhail shouldn't be wasting time negotiating with Nick while he is involved in negotiations with FAs or other GMs for trades.

I also agree it would be great if Nick was done now.

Where we disagree, is that you seem to think that every minute that passes between now and when Nick agrees to an extension means MacPhail is doing a worse and worse job of the process of signing Nick. I think that as long as he extends him, he's done a great job. It doesn't matter to me if he signs now or in two and a half years. I'll be anxious as hell up until he does sign, but as long as he gets signed, then MacPhail has succeeded here.

[LookinUp]

I have never said this so don't put words into my mouth.

Ultimately, I think Nick gets extended this offseason...I really have very little doubt about that. One thing AM has always done is keep his own.

My problem is the time table it is taking....AM has basically made it known that he can't walk and chew gum at the same time...The longer this drags out, the more it can hurt us doing other things or the more it can hurt us with the markakis extension if AM decides to move onto other things.

It should be done now...As I said back in August, the extension should be done before the offseason started because it is one less thing for AM to do. The more he has to do, the less will get done overall.

Rather than get testy like you just did, I'll just agree to disagree.

[LookinUp]

Even if the Orioles decide to trade Markakis, signing an extension for one more year is in the Orioles best interest. Markakis signed for a reasonable amount for four years is worth more in the trade market than Markakis with no extension and only his three years of arbitration left before free agency.

You can still trade him after signing him to an extension.

Maybe so. My point is that AM should be trying to get him off of 4 years first and foremost. It's worth a long negotiation, impasse, whatever if we can achieve that end. It should only come to that scenario where we agree to 4 years or trade him now if every other option has been removed from the table. Four years simply isn't what we would want.

[nadecir]

Maybe so. My point is that AM should be trying to get him off of 4 years first and foremost. It's worth a long negotiation, impasse, whatever if we can achieve that end. It should only come to that scenario where we agree to 4 years or trade him now if every other option has been removed from the table. Four years simply isn't what we would want.

Fair enough. I just don't see any logical reason why Markakis would change his mind now. I don't see how MacPhail could convince Markakis to sign a longer term deal, other than possibly vastly overpaying him on an annual basis to sign a longer term deal.

In the meantime as the impasse goes on, Markakis gets to see the big name free agents this offseason being courted and having huge dollars thrown at them. During part of the negotiating impasse so far, Markakis saw one of his best friends in his baseball career and former roommate, Adam Loewen, spurn the Orioles for greener pastures. I am pretty sure that was not a positive development to try to get Markakis to sign an extension.

Often times waiting is not the best course of action in negotiations.

[obannon35]

I am sorry but did you really say that it makes no sense for us to keep our best player and face of the franchise for one extra year? Really?

For me, the longer we can keep him, the better...I would rather have Nick for 4 years than 3 years.

Plus, if he isn't going to extend any longer and that becomes obvious, a team trading for him would give up more to get that extra year.

Yeah at this point looking over the whole spectrum of what our situation is, I'd say that makes absolutely no sense to do. First off, if you sign that contract Nick is not going to negotiate again until at least the offseason before the last contract year. Two, why would we invest that kind of money for little to no gain? Now my opinion is based on what this team is now and where they are trying to go. If three years from now we're on the verge of contention than you would be correct in that fourth year being of significant importance.

Again in my opinion, with the direction we're looking to go, signing Nick to a 4 year contract this year, just makes no sense.

[Sports Guy]

Maybe so. My point is that AM should be trying to get him off of 4 years first and foremost. It's worth a long negotiation, impasse, whatever if we can achieve that end. It should only come to that scenario where we agree to 4 years or trade him now if every other option has been removed from the table. Four years simply isn't what we would want.

Its funny how you accuse me of speculating and things like that but you are doing the same thing when you say Nick wants 4 years.

I agree we should be trying to get more if that is the case but if that is what he wanted in July and that is what he wanted in october and that is what he wants now, at some point you have to move on, extend him for 4 years, get things done and then in a year or 2, find out if you can extend him for another 2-4 years.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah at this point looking over the whole spectrum of what our situation is, I'd say that makes absolutely no sense to do. First off, if you sign that contract Nick is not going to negotiate again until at least the offseason before the last contract year. Two, why would we invest that kind of money for little to no gain? Now my opinion is based on what this team is now and where they are trying to go. If three years from now we're on the verge of contention than you would be correct in that fourth year being of significant importance.

Again in my opinion, with the direction we're looking to go, signing Nick to a 4 year contract this year, just makes no sense.

Totally disagree...having him even signed for only one extra year has no negatives attached to it.

It either means he is here for another year or he is worth more in a trade because he has an extra year on his deal.

[LookinUp]

Fair enough. I just don't see any logical reason why Markakis would change his mind now. I don't see how MacPhail could convince Markakis to sign a longer term deal, other than possibly vastly overpaying him on an annual basis to sign a longer term deal.

...

Often times waiting is not the best course of action in negotiations.

He'd change his mind for more money. Whether that means we'd have to totally over pay him to do so is unknowable. We'll see.

Yeah, waiting isn't always the best way to go. I agree. The verdict will come in the results. Some results are good - Bedard trade. Others are bad - Kevin Brady. Generally speaking though, moving very quickly during the actual negotiation can be very costly.

Either way we should have done this last year but it doesn't appear that Angelos will allow that.

[LookinUp]

Its funny how you accuse me of speculating and things like that but you are doing the same thing when you say Nick wants 4 years.

I agree we should be trying to get more if that is the case but if that is what he wanted in July and that is what he wanted in october and that is what he wants now, at some point you have to move on, extend him for 4 years, get things done and then in a year or 2, find out if you can extend him for another 2-4 years.

Be fair dude. You pushed for some reasonable explanation on why he's not signed yet. I gave you one, and I even said that's one of the possible explanations. It's clearly all speculation. I'm not considering it fact. If it came across as so in 20 or so posts, I apologize.

Another reason might be the total $$'s he's asking for are out of the park. A third might be his willingness to extend long term might hinge on what the team does in the offseason and a fourth might be that AM is simply dragging a$$.

There are reasons that this hasn't been done yet. One of those possibilities hinges on AM's inability to get things done. If that's the case, you're right. However, there are clearly other possibilities and I simply don't see this as a reason to make blanket statements like "there's no possible explanation for this not being done yet." That's just wrong.

[LookinUp]

Totally disagree...having him even signed for only one extra year has no negatives attached to it.

It either means he is here for another year or he is worth more in a trade because he has an extra year on his deal.

It's a negative if there's a possibility the O's could have gotten more years out of him. Your agreement should be the worst case scenario, not something that happens just so we can check it off the list.

[obannon35]

It's a negative if there's a possibility the O's could have gotten more years out of him. Your agreement should be the worst case scenario, not something that happens just so we can check it off the list.

Totally agree, if we have to do a four year deal this year than I say no way. We can revisit it next offseason.

[Hank Scorpio]

Zrebiec chimes in :

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck/2008/11/macphail_needs_to_get_markakis.html